A Brit on ObamaCare: ‘Dark Day For Freedom in America’

flamjew,

“No, I’m better than you no matter which country I come from. The longer this goes on the more wild your claims become, the more they rely on your own views and less on evidence.”

Oh gawd, your pompous, self-aggrandizing shit is so entertaining. I’ve provided evidence in the form of documentation, common sense, and experience. The only thing I’ve seen from you is the requisite leftie talking points, accompanied by links to websites and commentators with a similar view. Talk about wild claims. I’ve spend a lot of wasted time on your multitude of claims; from “wonderful” Euro socialized medicine to batshit-crazy, Chicken Little, “man-made” global warming apocalypse theories. The evidence contradicts your views. You keep returning with the same hackneyed argument, expecting a different outcome. That’s a good example of insanity.

“Well you’re wrong and you don’t have the balls to admit it.”

LOL! You’re wrong because flamjew says so! Know why? Shut up, that’s why! Playground logic. Hilarious!

“After the decontextualised and misrepresented account of the companies the state HAD to take over, you ignored your other overblown statements where you said Obama wanted to take over other industries (media etc etc). Hmmm they are suspiciously absent, possibly because you unable explain them.’

The State didn’t HAVE to take over anything. Only a socialist would think that is a good idea. In a free-market capitalist society, the State doesn’t force the submission of private industry to government control. There’s no misrepresentation of the fact that those businesses were going under due to mismanagement and a bad economy. The market determines success and failure, not Big Brother. But again, you’re a socialist. Obama’s “Communications Diversity” czar, Mark Lloyd certainly does want to control free speech, under the guise of ‘reigning in those big, bad corporations’. The only problem with that is the intent to stifle what he (and Obama) deems is too much free speech on the part of conservative opponents and a vast majority of Americans who object to the way Obama is deconstructing this country.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/obamas-communications-diversity-czar/

” There is a stark difference between published articles and blogs, which are basically just people guessing. The print media has certain guidelines to meet and therefore cannot make spurious claims, much like the ones found in your choice of postings.”

The Guardian and The Nation have “certain guidelines”??? Fucking please. Their “guidelines” are on par with rags like the New York Times, Newsweek, Salon, and a collection of other left-leaning print media. You use them to support your views. Publications such as The Wall Street Journal, Investors Business Daily, The Weekly Standard, are hardly “spurious”. You really have to get a new spiel.

“Doing a Masters in Media and Communication and centring my undergrad thesis around such issues kind of means I know more about this than say some conspiracy theorist with a bullhorn. If you just take a look at ANY of the academic literature surrounding US (or UK, as you as ever are glaringly ignorant of that area specifically) media then you would realise that your argument has been rebuked, debunked and exposed as the result of Republican brainwashing.”

You need a Masters in Media and Communication to understand the editorial content, viewpoints, and the slant of media? That’s funny, most people can gauge that simply by reading , watching, and listening. Hell, even the Associated Press, which often has no identified byline, is skewed to the Left. Read some of their ‘news reports’. Anyone with a couple of firing neurons and an 8th grade level of reading comprehension can tell the difference between The Guardian and The Wall Street Journal. Good luck with your degree. And do try posting a source other than Naomi Klein as “academic literature”.

“Whilst people can think for themselves, when they are just repeating the Sarah Palin and her dunderheaded cronies mumblings about socialism, it’s obvious they are not in possession of the truth, or any rough approximation of it. People who use ‘socialism’ to refer to anyone left of centre (or in your case, left of centre-right) highlight the fact that their news sources are lying to them, as no respected media outlet would make such bold and unsupported claims. But then their strategy is to present their odd-ball theories as what ‘the average American’ would think, which is hugely insulting to the average American as I would have thought they would be smarter than that. The truth is that to claim some legitimacy your gang has to claim the centre ground, to show that America is crying out with you against Obama, when in fact it isn’t.”

Speaking of dunderheads, regurgitating Naomi Klein, Robert McChesney and their nihilist friends, isn’t exactly an indication of a free market/democracy advocate. You’ve switched from Glenn Beck to Sarah Palin. Whoopie.
Oh yeah, none of us dunderheaded Yankees can think for ourselves. The 62% of Americans who oppose the socialist autocrats in the White House and the legislature, just don’t know what’s good for us. We should just accept the massive unemployment, deepening debt, monstrous deficit, catastrophic ObamaCare, oppressive, unconstitutional government intrusions, and the impending tax increases like good little bourgeoisie. Everything was just fine until Fox News planted the seeds of discontent in the heretofore obedient masses. Those polls that show Obama’s and the Democrats’ ratings in the toilet? LIES, all LIES! The thousands of Tea Party protests taking place across the United States, including my home State of Ohio, is just vast right wing propaganda! Former Obama supporters who are now fed up with his domestic and foreign policy fuck-ups, must have had a microchip planted in their brains by Roger Ailes, or worse, Karl Rove!
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/guess-whos-joining-the-tea-party/
How dare we read and understand the bills and the constitutional violations. How dare we question the motives, hubris, and abuse of power. The average Brit is so much smarter than us. After all you have Euro socialism and the upstarts in the former Colonies just don’t know what’s good for them.
You should have stopped with the effete bullshit a while ago, bud. All it does is make me laugh and open you up for more ridicule.

“Because your one brain cell has nothing to rub up against, it is understandable for you to not question anything, I mean surely breathing is about all you can cope with. But if you do manage to muster some extra grey matter then maybe you think about the information you post. Think about where it comes from, the reasons why it is there etc…..Instead of seeing things in a value neutral manner, you are so pre-possessed with your hatred of all things Democratic that you are letting that overrule your critical mindset. This is an prime example of ‘othering’ where an ‘us’ and ‘them’ is enacted, creating a double movement of bring those who agree with the ‘us’ viewpoint closer together, whilst demonising the other. You are so caught up in your hatred of the Democrats that you cannot see who is spurring this on, why they are doing it (now what could the Republicans have to gain from this?) and what coloured shit they are pouring down your mouth.”

Did you down your last brain cell with a pint? Shit, we’ve questioned our elected officials for awhile. The information you post never deviates from your own mindset. Pot, let me re-introduce you to Kettle. When it comes to demonizing, no one holds a candle to the Dems. We speak out against their ham-fisted tactics, and in return we are called ”white supremacists”, “racist”, “evil”, “hate mongers” and “terrorists“. We are demonized for simply exercising our First Amendment rights. http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/03/26/the-left-spews-more-hate-at-tea-party-patriots/
That ‘us against them’ thing started when the Dems threw together this government mandate behind closed doors with no open debate. It continued when they were confronted over the language and items in the bill that impose mandatory participation, oppressive taxation and penalties, and more outlandish spending . They ram-rodded the bill through the Senate and the House and Obama signed it into law against the will of the American people. THAT’S when the “us and them” took on a more urgent meaning than usual. You’re so blinded by your admiration for Obama’s efforts to ‘fundamentally transform’ the United States into a Euro clone, that you fail to understand the opposition of the American people. But that’s what happens when you have a shit factory for a brain. What could the Dems possibly gain from all this? It’s a power grab for Obama’s “legacy”, and nothing less.

“Media agencies have foreign reporters now, they don’t need to guess what is going on in another country, a tactic you seem to love.”

We don’t have American correspondents in Europe? We can’t view British media online? Your point is?

“The media you used was a blog from the Telegraph, which has no quality control, or BBC articles which I’ve also bettered, so it’s not their political standpoint, more their continual ‘wrongness’.”

The Democratic Underground, The Guardian, The Nation, Media Matters, and Salon, have “quality control”? That’s a subjective viewpoint, given their political slant. ‘Continual wrongness’ included.

“As far as I remember I’m the only one to have read Robert McChesney’s work, so I, above you know best about his “words, philosophies and actions” whilst you are wallowing in the fictitious crap you think is fact.”

Gee, I must’ve missed the part where he said:

“There is no real answer but to remove, brick by brick, the capitalist system itself, rebuilding the entire society on socialist principles.
—Robert McChesney”

Is that also fictitious crap? Did something get lost in translation? I don’t think you’ve understood McChesney very well.

“The Royal Charter of the BBC enshrines impartiality”

ROFLMAO!!! Since when do they practice “impartiality”? This must be a sample of their version: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/worldnews/1548007/Heros-tale-is-too-positive-for-the-BBC.html
The BBC is known for its bias by your own British countrymen.
http://www.aim.org/guest-column/media-bias-at-the-bbc/
Even members of the BBC staff admit its bias.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-411846/We-biased-admit-stars-BBC-News.html
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/uknews/1554749/BBC-report-finds-bias-within-corporation.html
Don’t piss on my leg and tell me it’s raining.

“Yes, we cannot breathe for all the criticisms of the NHS. As you’re American and thus don’t get irony. I was joking. Whilst there are undeniable critiques of the NHS by the media it misses the point that you are trying to make: that the NHS model does not work…..So yet again you’ve misunderstood the argument and overegged your omelette.”

ObamaCare is no better than the NHS. Did I miss the part about the similarities? I used the right amount of eggs.

“Whilst that is fundamentally misrepresenting my position, but then you totalitarian critique knows not subtlety, your position would just allow the gap between rich (who do not necessarily work harder to get their money, to think in such a way is simply naive and ignorant of reality) and poor to grow exponentially. That would really make America great, instilling a class based plutocracy. Well done you.”

My totalitarian critique is spot on. “….do not necessarily work harder to get their money”… There’s that wealth envy again. Must suck to know that there are successful people who did far better than you. They didn’t get there by thinking the world owed them a living. They went out and earned it. Many of those rich folks started out with nothing, and worked their way up. Socialism creates a State-run economy with no chance for anyone to attain more wealth or improve their living standards on their own merit. Yeah, let’s create an oppressive, stagnant, overtaxed failure, where the gap between an authoritarian government and the people is as wide as the space between your ears.

“I’ve never said that ‘all private industry should be nationalised’ because if I did, then that would be socialist. I’ve never done that. The two are different. And also neither has the Democrats. But then that requires seeing things in perspective and understanding political subtleties, neither of which you have proven yourself capable of.”

What do you think nationalized healthcare is? When you made the statement that the “state HAD to take over” some companies, you did little to separate your philosophy from socialism. That requires understanding.

“Also as far as I remember the banks didn’t have to take the bailout money, over here Barclays for one didn’t receive anything even though they were entitled to, does that make the bank CEOs who took government help, socialists? I think not. Your oversimplified account of the financial crisis, is not one that is supported by anyone with any know how.”

The government had no business even offering AIG, Chrysler, GM, or CitiCorp a bailout with taxpayer money. Some banks were forced by the government to accept funds. Others were forced to lend more, whether they liked it or not. Let me refresh your memory:
Hank Paulson Threatened Bank Of America CEO into Accepting TARP http://online.wsj.com/article/SB124078909572557575.html
FDIC Forces Bank to Lend More
http://boston.bizjournals.com/boston/stories/2009/03/16/story3.html?b=1237176000
And then there’s the Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac debacle created by Democrats who refused to reign in the spending. Again: Fannie Mae and Freddie Mac were the programs that forced banks to lend money to people—at a subprime rate—who had no business getting loans. Not only that, but Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac now controls over half the country’s mortgages, whether you signed on or not. That system is broke, too. But that’s not stopping Obama from pumping more taxpayer bailouts into the failed government program. That’s probably more complicated than you can handle.

“But creating a tax isn’t unconstitutional? That’s why this is being done with the IRS. If it didn’t have these elements in it, the Bill would have just maintained the status quo. To get people into healthcare, and to raise the priority of it amongst the people, it has to be done this way.”

It’s not just the creation of excessive taxation that has people angry it’s also the violation of the Commerce clause:

First, the Constitution does not give Congress the power to require that Americans purchase health insurance. Congress must be able to point to at least one of its powers listed in the Constitution as the basis of any legislation it passes. None of those powers justifies the individual insurance mandate. Congress’s powers to tax and spend do not apply because the mandate neither taxes nor spends. The only other option is Congress’s power to regulate interstate commerce. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703278604574624021919432770.html

Now, even though the health insurance mandate itself doesn’t contain ‘tax and spend’, there are items added in the bill which specify tax penalties and fines for those who don’t kowtow. The actual costs of ObamaCare (in the billions) are figured into the budget.
The 10th Amendment LIMITS the scope of the government.
Here’s the 10th amendment: “The powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” Which means the Constitution prohibits Congress from manufacturing authority it does not have. The powers laid out to the federal government can be found in Article 1, Section 8. Health care is not in there. Anywhere.

“When I used media matters you cried ‘socialist’, yet you have managed to cite a fascist source (obviously it’s not fascist, but with your love of exaggeration, possibly that’s the only way you’ll understand the term ‘right-wing’). CNS, is part of the Media Research Centre, which is run by a conservative, with conservative backers….To paraphrase: a more right-wing website cannot be found on the internet.”

And this is worse than your leftwing sources?

“The Fox-News article you cited: “The Reconciliation Act of 2010 is a disastrous, anti-growth tax hike bill”, your words: “The Reconciliation Act of 2010 is a disastrous, anti-growth tax hike bill.” Sound similar? Either you cannot form a sentence without copying it from somewhere, or you have been brainwashed to the extent that you are spewing Fox talking points. Shameful.”

The Act of 2010 is a disastrous, anti-growth tax hike bill. Period. The fact remains so regardless of the article title or my reference to it. I have given ample evidence of the effects of Obama’s economic policies; from media reports across the U.S. and from personal experience in my hometown. Your talking points come from The Guardian, The Nation, and the BBC. You can’t think outside the prescribed socialist doctrine. Your repeated accusation of the “brainwashed” tripe tells me you cannot except counterpoints from people who know a hell of a lot more than you about the United States, our laws, and our Constitution. What’s shameful is your blind arrogance.

“Why should I be surprised that yet again you fail to see the point of the argument? Firstly, when the Republican’s opposed Medicare/Medicaid it was predominately a moral issue, the perceived removal of freedoms and not the economic argument. So it is you who is the revisionist, as you are attempting to imbue the anti-Medicare/aids with the knowledge of today. But that still doesn’t excuse neither you nor them from the second point. Just because the costs are spiralling it doesn’t negate the benefits of the programme nor the countless lives its saved. Just because you’d rather have a couple of dollars in your pocket whilst watching those ghastly poor and elderly die, doesn’t mean everyone else should be so elitist.”

What’s so “moral” about bankrupting the country? What’s so moral about destroying the economy and impinging freedoms? Again, I don’t know how much simpler I can make this: When a government forces the entire population of a country onto a government-dictated, nationalized health care program, the freedom to choose your own health plan, doctor, and treatment, is taken away. When the population is forced to pay billions more in taxes to pay for this government mandate, and tax penalties and fines are levied against those who refuse to buy into the government mandate, freedoms are squelched. Yeah, just because health care will be rationed and the quality will nosedive, we have no right to the “elitist” notion that the government should keep its hands off our healthcare. Just because the government will have the equivalent of a death panel to decide whether or not it’s worth treating those poor and elderly, doesn’t mean we should get all uppity with the attitude that the government doesn’t know what’s best for us or how to run a business. After all, the Postal Service, Medicare, Fannie Mae, and Freddie Mac have been such a fabulous success. Right.

“why not try supporting the Bill, as the Director of the CBO said (helpfully in the blog you provided) that the deficit will be reduced with this enactment of the Bill.”

Not so. You need to read the entire analysis. The CBO has stated unequivocally that ObamaCare will run into the billions.
CBO’s Letter to Rep. Paul Ryan (R-WI ) Confirms ObamaCare Will Add Billions to Deficit:

…..the total budgetary impact of enacting the reconciliation proposal (the amendment to H.R. 4872), the Senate-passed health bill (H.R. 3590), and the Medicare Physicians Payment Reform Act of 2009 (H.R. 3961). CBO estimates that enacting all three pieces of legislation would add $59 billion to budget deficits over the 2010–2019 period.
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/113xx/doc11376/RyanLtrhr4872.pdf

More “good news” about ObamaCare: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10001424052748703312504575142630094747908.html
The Dems try to obscure the costs with smoke and mirrors. Passing the bills one at a time, knowing that the accumulated damage will catch up later. In the meantime, they can sell a line of bullshit about how they’re “reducing” the deficit and “making health care affordable”.

“You speak of choice, yet you time and time again miss the point that not everyone has the same ability to choose as you. You are ignoring the people who want healthcare but can’t; the people who have healthcare but had it taken away; the people who cannot afford to get healthcare. “

Under ObamaCare NO ONE gets a choice. You’re ignoring the fact that there are less and less taxpayers who will be able to afford this mess. What’s going to happen when the government runs out of people to gouge for an over-bloated healthcare system? We already know the answer to that.

“With this paragraph there are so many factual errors it makes me question your logical abilities: firstly, the US still has and will have private insurance companies, those middlemen who don’t care about your health and only exist to make profit out of injuries.”

You really don’t know squat about what’s coming, do you? The U.S. won’t have any private insurance companies not under the thumb of the government. They will not be permitted to operate independently, without government oversight. WHY DO YOU THINK THE BILL MANDATES THAT EVERYONE HAVE HEALTHCARE? It’s a government racket. There will be no competition, except for the government. And gawd knows it will be so much better than those eeeeeeeeevil insurance profiteers. Your logical abilities are nonexistent.

“the revolutionary slogan is a bit overdone isn’t it? Blimey you have elections, you are represented, and thus making yourself looking like the original patriots is misguided, misjudged and incredibly dim-witted. So you disagree with the people in charge, welcome to democracy, plenty of people around the world living in democracies have the same problem. Your naively anarchistic views about the role of government put you more left than Stalin. Good going.”

Gawd, what a pinhead. Our “representatives” just crammed an unconstitutional socialist healthcare mandate which will control 20% of our economy, down our throats. Your vacuous comment demonstrates your unbelievable stupidity and total ignorance about the American people. We are angry for a damned good reason. Just because you can’t identify with the travesty going on over here, doesn’t mean you get to denigrate us for standing on our principles. Anarchistic? You jackass. We would like our government to follow the Constitution it’s sworn to protect. They work for us, not the other way around. You just proved how little you know about the role of government. You make Lenin look moderate. Congratulations.

“See above about plagiarising, as you actually do seem unable to come up with new phraseology. But your shock at lobbyists is frankly laughable. “

See ‘The Act of 2010’ paragraph above, for my reponse to ‘plagiarizing’. I’m not shocked at the influence of SEIU thugs in Obama’s policies. They go back a long way.

“OH MY GOD, PEOPLE ARE ATTEMPTING TO INFLUENCE DECISION MAKERS…..”

Oh dear, forgive us peons for objecting to the influence of union thugs and Marxists who are trying to disintegrate the Democratic Republic we’d like to keep.

“Par for the course” Dismissive, moi?….”

Oui. They do support my arguments. Over and over again.

“Media Matters: I asked you to prove that they were one of the most left-wing sites on the internet, not simply a left-wing site on the internet. There’s a difference, not that you would be able to grasp the distinction. Here’s some more radical left wing sites just so you can compare: http://www.socialistparty.org.uk/main/Home http://www.communist-party.org.uk/ http://www.cpusa.org/ Thus you haven’t proved anything bar your inability to read. Well done.”

Media Matters’ George Soros, and John Podesta aren’t leftwing enough? Gawd, what semantics. Bravo.

“If you bothered to read my argument, I implied that if racists were to go to a party, out of the two it would be the Republicans…”

Your fatuous assumption is matched only by the Left’s hypocrisy.

…..But denials that have come from the Republican’s about race obfuscates the truth, as time and time again you neither confirm nor deny, you just complain about the racism tag: http://www.time.com/time/nation/article/0,8599,399921,00.html http://www.examiner.com/x-2071-DC-Special-Interests-Examiner~y2009m3d4-Is-the-Republican-Party-racist

When it comes to race baiting, no one outdoes the Dems. It’s part of their party platform.
http://www.wnd.com/index.php?fa=PAGE.printable&pageId=42384
http://newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/obama-race-baiting/2009/10/13/id/335539
http://michellemalkin.com/2009/06/01/rangel-the-race-baiter/
And they sure know how to bring on the racism when it suits them.
http://www.breitbart.tv/flashback-protester-shouts-white-boy-at-tea-party-speaker/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/04/10/more-racism-from-the-left/
They suck up to minorities, not because they’re sincere, but because it gets good reviews.
http://newsmax.com/RonaldKessler/democratic-racism/2008/02/25/id/323000
http://pajamasmedia.com/rogerlsimon/2010/04/07/why-the-democratic-party-clings-to-racism/?singlepage=true
Oh yeah, and I forgot to mention: Robert Byrd (D-WV) is a former KKK member. Glass houses, bub. So far I’ve not seen any confirmation that the Republicans have a corner on the “racism” market.

“Yes those darned Democrats actually giving a damn. Why not let the poor people just suffer as that’s the American way?”

Oh fucking please. I’m running out of Kleenex.

“So you find one anti-war poster and all the world’s a racist. That is hardly conclusive. Whilst it is impossible to argue that every Democratic supporter is not racist, you do miss the point about the racism that is quite apparent within some of the Republican supporters, and instead of denying it real change has to be made.”

Hardly conclusive? The Left is so full of shit when it comes to “tolerance” and “diversity”. It’s quite possible to argue that the “racist” Republican accusation is nothing more than a stereotype perpetuated by the Dems to ensure a minority voting bloc. Most Republicans I know vote substance over pigment. You want to see seething racism? Try listening to a leftwing moonbat going off the handle over black conservatives.

“She also argues that Thatcher used the Falklands War as cover for her unpopular economic policies, when actually those economic policies and their results enjoyed strong public support”. Well that’s a pile of shit. Speak to the average British person and they will have to restrain themselves from spitting when they hear her name. She was a hugely divisive figure, who had seemingly little regard for the average person.”

That kinda describes they way we feel about Obama. He’s divisive and has no regard for the American people, except for the ones he can exploit for political gain.

“Could it be because the developed nations had caused their fair share of pollution. This isn’t really that much of a leap, more just a common sense argument. “

Could it be that the developed nations already shoulder the burden for cleaning up the planet?

“Oh dear. No wonder you are so wrong about everything else, if you see a near scientific consensus as an 50/50 possibility; here’s a list of institutions and organisations who support climate change”…”

Oh my, and to think “Climategate” happened in your very own country:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/11/23/hide-the-decline-e-mails-reveal-how-scientists-discussed-climate-change-hoax/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/02/15/climategate-scientist-admits-hoax/

“Obviously when you said “science articles” you meant non-scientific, peer reviewed articles. Until you start citing actual scientific journal articles your opinion is ignorant as you are speaking purely from opinion rather than from scientific knowledge, which is yet another area you have proven intellectually redundant.”

Obviously, you missed the articles that referenced real scientists…no, not Al Gore’s hired hacks.
http://junkscience.com/climategate.html
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2007/dec/19/year-of-global-cooling/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/06/18/weather-channel-founder-to-al-gore-youre-a-fraud/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/03/04/weather-channel-founder-urges-lawsuit-against-global-warming-bots/
Even an educated 15 year old is able to pick apart the Global Warming Alarmists.
http://newsbusters.org/node/13282
Face it: Al Gore and the “man-made” climate change racket has been debunked, ripped apart, and just plain disproved. You tin foil hats need a new scam. That last one’s been busted.

“I did none of that. But obviously you and your fellow soldiers don’t actually want to go out and speak to people, to try and understand them as ewwww you might get their germs. But then your narrow minded military complex has stopped you from seeing that.”

I’m sure you didn’t sweetpea. You probably (eeeeewwwwww!) rubbed elbows with every friendly muslim you could, and gawd knows what else. Keep stroking that fertility god.

“Just like Bush FORCED Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae into Government CONTROL. Yet neither of us would say he was a socialist would we?”

Actually, Bush called for reform of the two programs:
http://gatewaypundit.firstthings.com/2008/09/bush-called-for-reform-of-fannie-mae-freddie-mac-17-times-in-2008-alone-dems-ignored-warnings/

“What is wrong with wanting American citizens to be properly informed? Possibly it’s because the more people who are not in possession of the facts, the more supporters you have.’

That’s a pretty snooty comment coming from a Brit who has no real understanding of America. “Properly informed” in your effete little mind, is based on what you perceive to be “facts”: that ObamaCare and the transformation of our free market system to socialism is a wonderful, craptastic idea. American principles and public opinion do not hinge on the rants of a limey stooge 6000 miles removed from reality. Just so you know.

“At the moment you do confuse “democracy” with a “fascist dictatorship”. It’s a mistake I would expect a 6 year old child to make, but I’m sure you’ll improve. So until people start getting hauled off into camps, I think you’re fine on that one.’

There is no confusion about the fascist-style tactics of out-of-control autocrats. If your dissertations are any indication, a six year old child has a better intellect than you.

“The two are barely discernable. “ Much like conservatism and fascism.”

Much like liberalism and communism.

”Ah yes I forgot you didn’t know what morality means. Healthcare is a right; no person should have to forgo treatment that will save their live for sheer lack of finance. Healthcare isn’t something you are born into, it isn’t something awarded to you, it is a human right. Any person who can wilfully stand up and say that people don’t deserve to live is barely human. I’m sure you would sing a different tune if you were caught without healthcare, but you seem unable to imagine yourself in any other situation that your current one. The protests you seem so thrilled to go on are fought with an undercurrent of ignorance but also with an overture of fear. The tiny tax rise on those who frankly can afford it, will not result in those receiving the benefits of the new law having more money than them. That seems to be what it all boils down to, fear and greedy selfish individualism.”

Oh fer gawd’s sake. NO WHERE is healthcare mentioned in the Constitution. READ it and tell me which amendment covers that. And the Declaration of Independence states that people are “endowed by their Creator with certain inalienable rights, that among these are life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. It says nothing about the pursuit of a Nanny State. Health care is a privilege bestowed by supporting system of employment and private choice. The underprivileged have health care provided either at low or no cost. It’s called Medicare and Medicaid. Employment is not a guaranteed right, either. No one owes you a living. The trouble is, you lefties assign all kinds of imaginary rights, most of which have no basis in fact. That “moral” ground you’re standing on is a big pile of crap.
Neal Boortz has a good summation:

Most government-educated Americans would be shocked to hear that there is no “right” to healthcare. Tell me where in our Constitution it is written that you have a right to a portion on someone else’s life .. in this case, it would be the service of providing medical care at the point of a gun. Well, the Democrats are on a fast track to ensuring that Americans can claim healthcare as a “right.” Under the House Democrats proposed plan, the federal government would be responsible for making sure that every person has health insurance. Did you know that if you as an individual choose not to obtain health insurance, the federal government will seize 2.5% of your income? That’s right. At the point of a gun, the federal government will seize your income. Now there is one important fact to keep in mind – this assumes that you have an income. For the poor, poor pitiful poor, the federal government isn’t going to come along and seize their double-wides or rent-to-own furniture. Nope. In fact, they will be getting a government handout to obtain health insurance! The same goes for employers, which will be required by law to offer healthcare benefits to employees or face stiff penalties equal to 8% of workers’ wages.
Two questions.
First, why are the Democrats doing this? This is the easiest to answer. The Democrats want to make people more dependent on government. They are going to do this by offering something that more Americans now value above all: stability. Americans think they want freedom. What a crock. Americans will whine about their freedom to choose which sports team to root for or which Hollywood gossip magazine to buy. But when freedom requires any ounce of personal responsibility, people immediately wipe their hands clean and want someone else to do it for them. This is where the Democrats come in .. the Democrats will make sure that the government is there to do the things the people of this country no longer feel is their personal responsibility. The reason why the Democrats are willing to do this is also simple: power. Ensuring votes. Not hard to figure out, is it?
Second, who is going to pay for this? That’s also easy to answer. The achievers. The filthy, disgusting rich. The small business owners. If you are an individual making over $280,000 you will be shouldering even more of the tax burden in order to pay for this government healthcare/redistribution scheme. Don’t worry, that’s just a starting point. That number will slowly shift downward as Democrats realize they don’t have the enough money to fund their dreams and schemes. But guess what? That includes more than 1 million small businesses in America. Those small businesses that provide jobs and write paychecks .. yep, those are the evil rich people the Democrats want to hit with tax increases. And to really play on the wealth envy of Americans, the Democrats want to increase taxes even more .. 5.4% tax increase .. on people earning more than $1 million a year. I’m sure most Americans are okay with that one. Those people are millionaires because they were lucky! Right?
By the way, the Democrats also want to ram this thing through the Congress as fast as possible. We are talking within weeks. That move is also not hard to understand .. the longer Americans have to really look into the details of this bill and begin to understand the consequences of this bill, the harder it will be to support it. Then again, that assumes that Americans give a flying Krispy Kreme about the future of this country.
http://boortz.com/more/newsletter/071609_heathcare.html

Everything in that essay is right on the money.

“Obama is helping the people who you Republicans have left to ‘help themselves’. It comes down to, you are bitter that McCain isn’t President, and you watch too much Fox News. Try a new news source that doesn’t use ‘socialist’ at least 10 times a day.”

“Help themselves”…that’s hilarious. Obama’s turning us into a Banana Republic. Get your nose out of The Guardian and come up for air. Try sourcing a media that doesn’t glorify Obama for a change.

“I have never seen a more vile, despicable bunch of autocrats in my life.” Bush’s cabinet?

Like who? Karl Rove? Oooooooooo scary man, that Rove. I bet he still gives you bedwetting nightmares.

“You really need to stop watching Fox…..”

You really need to turn off the BBC.
Progressive=Socialist/Communist. Your comrades even admit to it: Communists Advance the Progressive Idea
http://www.politicalaffairs.net/article/view/9341/1/388/

“Awwwwwww, look at you trying the big talk. Failed though. You again fail to see that being in the forces doesn’t mean to automatically understand the big picture. That is not saying that I do, I just understand that I don’t understand the big picture. Whilst your militaristic elitism is simply wonderful, you still suffer from the same mindset that pollutes your foreign policy ‘knowledge’. Being in wartime army, drafted rather than voluntarily recruited are two very different things, as I know that the UK soldiers did and continue to sacrifice a lot.”

“Militaristic elitism”….Geez, I’m flattered. I was part of the big picture in Iraq and Bosnia. I was part of the big picture throughout my Army career. I was an active participant in the application of foreign policy. That’s about as knowledgeable as one can get.

“So that ultimately pits your reading against that of 4 professors, the publisher and the thousands of people who use the textbook. I know who I’ll side with. Another quote from the book: “Most of the framers desired a strong government but doubted that their ideal system would make it past voters. To help their cause, the framers often included vague language that later Americans could interpret broadly to give the federal government great influence. For example, although the Constitution limited the powers of Congress to a specific list, it also gave Congress the flexibility to “make all laws which shall be necessary and proper” (pp. 32-33). So by extension I suppose my sources are all of the signers.”

I’ll pit the Constitution against your leftwing academic intelligentsia any day. Article 1 Section 8 of the Constitution outlines in very explicit terms, the Powers of Congress. http://www.usconstitution.net/xconst_A1Sec8.html There’s nothing vague about it. Neither is the 10th Amendment, which I’ve cited previously.

“ Awww those poor tax payers. Now who do you think will come along once their studies have finished and start paying off their loans/contribute more to the pool. Yes, the students.”

Not according to the Reconciliation Bill. They’ve been bailed out by working taxpayers, thanks to Obama. One more entitlement group. Those “poor taxpayers” will be glad to know they are liable for loans they never incurred.

“When education is a matter of money than you are heading down a rocky road towards economic inaction. You should be proud that people want to go to university in America, you should be proud that when they finish they will contribute to society, but also realise that you don’t have to sponsor a graduate, all their tuition fees will not have to come from you. But then that is just the standard defence of a Republican when it comes to education. Who needs it? “apply for a Pell Grant” ahhh the same Pell Grant that was expanded through the Act: http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/26/health/policy/26health.html

When the money runs out and the taxpayers can no longer afford to be fleeced for other people’s education, you’ll really see economic inaction. I have a college degree, thanks to the GI Bill, some financial assistance, and a job. My military service and taxes paid into it. I earned what I have. Newsflash, leftie: nothing is free. Someone always pays for the generosity of government spending discretion. The students expect a free ride; unfortunately, the Pell Grant wasn’t the only expansion. Gee, not only is healthcare a free “right”, but education is a free “right”…just depends if you’re a working taxpayer or a freeloader expecting a handout. Scholarships and financial assistance aside, the Dems have created a new class of dependents.

OH GOD. OH NO. NOT THE CLEAN AIR ACT. My throat is closing because of the…clean….air. Yes that is bloody ridiculous. If you’re not a polluter why do you care if the laws are restrictive? Surely you like to go to the National Parks, or just enjoy scenery that isn’t smoggy or covered in crap. Surely you like drinking clean water?

Oh gawd, not the bleedin’ “save the planet” crap again. My point is that our laws are restrictive enough and last I checked, what we have works just fine. We don’t need any lectures from the U.N. or a Brit still kvetching about the Kyoto treaty farce.

“So how is regulating the insurance industry or tightening the media regulations any different?”

Is that what you call the government takeover, “regulation”?

“This statement takes your inability to discern context to a whole new and idiotic level. Last time I check Woolworths didn’t have half of the United States’ mortgages sat next to its Pick ‘n’ Mix? Businesses shouldn’t get too big to fail, but in a wholly free-market system that is what happens.”

Your inability to understand the point, takes your stupidity to a new level. AIG, Chrysler, and GM are just the latest major corporations to run into trouble. Several big businesses failed. It’s sad, but it happens in a free market economy. The government should not serve as a taxpayer-funded financial parachute for every corporate failure.

“Because of the ascent of money, those who control it are central to our economic survival, so if they go down, they take everything down with it, all the mortgages, the assets, the individual accounts of ordinary people. The government has to intervene or face worse problems later on.”

Bullshit. The problems get worse when the government intervenes. When you invest in business, you take a risk. You want the government to prop up every single big business entity that starts to flounder? Shit, Freddie Mac and Fannie Mae are indelible proof that the government can’t even run a fucking business it created itself. The FDIC has every bank insured to the hilt.
Give me a fucking break.

Whilst your argument reads well it is based on either little knowledge or pop-economics at best.
“I don’t need to pick up a book” Truer words have ne’er been spoken.

I’d hardly call the expertise of the CBO or the financial experts at the Wall Street Journal or Investors Business Daily, “little knowledge”. I also wouldn’t consider the economic devastation I’ve seen in my home town “pop economics”. Your argument, like socialism, looks real pretty on paper. In real life, not so much.

“Awwwww look at you with your military contractions trying to sound informed. No. If you can’t see how the military paints a picture using one particular colour then that is your prerogative. Shame, as it’s such a polychromous world out there.

Awwwwww. Substituting puerile snark for substance again. Tsk.

“…Yes so when Blair faced the enquiry he didn’t want to be red-faced. You really are ignorant to the realities of the war. It would have been common knowledge if WMDs were found, the whole Iraq Inquiry and the media reporting of it would have started from a different point; the Labour Party would have trumpeted that in the election campaign currently being waged.”

If WMDs were found??? Denial ain’t a river in Egypt. You read the information. If you can’t grasp the fact that Cyclosarin, enriched uranium, and yellow cake are WMD materials, you ought to be red-faced. When you’ve actually been to war, and humped a ruck and a weapon instead of Obama’s leg, we’ll compare notes. ‘K, sweetpea?

“But as you’ve already made clear, you don’t believe proper science, it’s too truthful for you.”

Like Al Gore’s “science”? Uh huh. Read the citations I provided in the Climategate section. Happy reading.

“It takes a certain (low) level of understanding to think that global warming will make everything into a tropical paradise. But maybe that’s what Fox News has been telling you, or those various other “credible news sources”.

It takes a pretty sophisticated set of cerebral blinders to believe that “global warming” schtick in the first place. You really need to rely on better sources than Al Gore.

“For the umpteenth time, you have failed to understand the difference between a theoretical and a real-world argument. Theoretically there is no link between communism and oppression. In the real world, the quasi-Communism that the USSR et al pushed forth was horrifically oppressive, but it wasn’t true Marxist Communism.”

Theoretically, true Marxist Communism is such a wonderful, utopian crock of shit.

“Ah George Soros the socialist who changed Hungary from Communism to capitalism, the socialist who made billions on the stock exchange. Yes he is a regular Communist. But then that presumes you check your sources, or care for the distinctions between political ideologies.”

George Soros, founder of the radical leftwing MoveOn.org. Advocate of a “one-world” government. He gave a substantial donation to the defense fund for radical lawyer Lynne Stewart, who was convicted of giving aid to Islamic terrorists. He became a multi-billionaire off of the capitalist system he despises. He thinks that markets shouldn’t be “left to their own devices”. In 1992, he made a 1 billion dollar profit at the same time he helped devalue the British Pound. That George Soros. You’d better re-check your sources, bub.

To be as uninformed as you are wrong takes a certain skill, yet one you wield with something approaching aplomb. You wave your stick of ignorant exaggeration to all and sundry yet hide behind your pitiful shield of selfish self-interest. Your faux patriotism is merely a disguise for petty partisan politics; whilst your chosen sources of information complete the ‘who’s who’ of spurious news, but such views you trot out with such supreme confidence and pride, without realising that they are all without intellectual merit. Pity as you’re trying so hard.

Ah yes, closing with another snooty, arrogant, dismissive, haughty Brit diatribe. How impressive. There’s plenty of faux intellect in that. Trouble is, you wouldn’t know the difference between real patriotism and petty partisan politics if it kicked you in the arse.
Do come back again. I really enjoy the entertainment.

SFC MAC

flamjew,

Honey, it ain’t my ass that’s getting handed.
Okay let me try one more time: You made the first reference to McChesney (who is a socialist) and his complaint about the “lack of regulation in the communications industry”. The kind of control he wants is State-regulated speech. Like Mark Lloyd. You and McChesney share the same socialist views. I posted a response that clearly demonstrated McChesney’s ideology, and it’s similarity to yours. Good gawd, you are addlebrained.
Refuting your “points” one step at a time is too confusing for you to handle?
The links I provide to my blog contain links to articles which support my arguments. IF YOU ACTUALLY GO to the blog link, you’ll see for yourself. Is that too difficult?
I write about events and issues that directly affect me, my family, my community, and my country. That includes the impact from Obama’s socialist trainwreck. When I write about foreign policy, I refer to my experiences as a Soldier, war veteran, and intel analyst. The cited articles report the dissent and growing anger of a disenfranchised public. Just because you don’t like the reality of all that, you dismiss it as “lack of evidence”. I’ve yet to see any evidence that the socialism you hold so dear, actually works. Anywhere.

“…you have once again failed to respond to my claims with anything but a “no YOU’RE childish” retort”

If you don’t like the “childish” accusation flung back at you don’t use it as a substitute for lack of a cogent argument.

“It leaves me speechless how in a two party system, you are unable to see the other party just as the opposition without thinking that they are the devil incarnate.”….

I could cite hundreds of examples of vile, despicable behavior on the part of the Dems toward the American citizenry. They used to be known as the loyal opposition. Not anymore. They are doing their level damndest to bring this country to its knees economically, politically, and militarily. Either their intent is to tear apart the fabric of this country and destroy it, or they’re incredibly stupid.

“In Britain whilst there is opposition between Labour and Conservatives, it remains on the issues, not overblown statements based on little to no evidence. My “inability to understand the seriousness” comes from the value of detachment, and the free-thinking mind not warped by Fox News. The ability to check more than one news source without thinking them the devil, does wonders for getting some perspective on things.”

“Overblown statements”? Like the fact that a feckless, narcissistic Marxist and his Dem cronies , have produced a 12 trillion dollar deficit, a deep recession, 15% unemployment, and a law, if left unrepealed, will rot away at our healthcare system. Facts, not exaggerations. Try Fox News for a change, instead of The Nation, The Guardian, and the Worker’s World Daily. Read the Wall Street Journal, Moody’s, and Investors Business Daily. Hell, try listening to the average American instead of your British comrades. We are directly affected by Obamanomics. “Detached” isn’t an adjective that applies. Your demand for “evidence” is astounding. The evidence is all around us over here, but you’re too “detached” from it. “Free thinking”??? LOL!!! “Free thinking” is not a socialist concept, and your comments and ideology damned sure don’t reflect the mind of a “free thinker”. How amusing. Free thinkers don’t advocate oppressive economic policies.
But you’re right, because you say so.

“If Obama hadn’t done bailed out the banks, what would have happened? Go.”

In a free market capitalist system, you do NOT reward failure. Let them file for bankruptcy like any other business entity. Other companies have done so, and the market survived just fine. The problem with the bailouts, which amounted to almost $800 billion in taxpayer money, is that it did absolutely nothing but prop up industries that were failing due to their own mismanagement, and in several cases, government interference. AIG, just one of the beneficiaries of Obama’s tax-funded generosity, has come back to the trough several times. You can only loot the treasury and taxpayers so many times before the money runs out.
Here’s something about the reasons why the housing industry collapsed: http://townhall.com/columnists/JohnStossel/2008/09/24/what_happened_to_market_discipline?page=1
Your turn.

“There was no critique of the Saudi regime even though they were amongst if not the most oppressive state regarding women’s rights. Some of the things that go on in that country really rankles (a woman being stoned after being raped). The selective blindness has gone on long enough and no one really wants to stand up to it because they are the US’s friend.”

Hell, I’ve NEVER made the claim that they were our friends, as a matter of fact, I’ve said the exact opposite: http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2007/11/05/the-saudis-are-not-our-friends/ (includes a link to news article)
NO Islamic Middle Eastern country should be considered “a friend”.

“The facts you state are “he is turning the country into a socialist state” which screams normative to anyone. And picking a few decontextualised examples hardly is a robust defence.”

No, the facts I state are supported by robust proof. Every economic policy he ran on during the campaign, and every policy he’s inflicted screams socialism. These are his words and philosophy: “single payer system”, “wealth redistribution”, “community organizer”. All socialist buzzwords. He’s applying the socialist concept of vesting control over private industry and dictation of production and profit. That is socialism. By the way: Compare what he’s done with (now government owned) GM, Chrysler, AIG, and CitiCorp, with the Ford Motor Company. Ford told Obama to shove his bailouts. Unlike the government-owned businesses, it’s thriving. Forcing people, under threat, to submit to a government-run health care system, is SOCIALISM. Period.

“Saying that it Reps didn’t oppose Medicare/Medicaid are we? You’ll need better evidence than saying “wrong”…

THIS is what I said: “Before you comment any further about the wide-spread American opposition to ObamaCare, READ THE BILL. Otherwise, you’re just pulling nonsense out of your ass to compensate for lack of intelligent discourse.”
Our issue is not with Medicare, but the forced enrollment of the entire country onto a government-controlled system. Those who aren’t even on Medicare, or who have their own individual plan will be FORCED, under penalty, to do it or else. More people are dead set against ObamaCare, then there ever were against Medicare. Even so, between the abuse, fraud, waste, and government mismanagement, Medicare hasn’t turned out real well.
ObamaCare is so wonderful that senior government officials and unions will be exempt. Obama, Pelosi ,and Reid will never subject themselves to the same substandard care they want to foist on others.

“You’re very good at trading insults (“to compensate for your lack of intelligent discourse”), yet you don’t back it up with anything boarding on cogent on your part. Rather than simply decrying something as false, at least find something that backs up your claim. Seriously. It’s like trying to teach a 9 year old how to write an essay. Plus the points I were makings can’t be found in the Bill. Somehow I don’t think the legislation doesn’t cover a complete history of the Republican Party and their ability to be on the wrong side of history of time and time again.”

If you post ad hominem attacks and bullshit, you get it in return. I’ve yet to see any conclusive evidence or intelligent discourse on your part, that indicates you understand anything, let alone what’s going on in my country or why people are so up in arms. HAVE YOU READ THE BILL? I have. Have you read the Constitution? I have. You have no idea how the Dems’ actions and ram-rodded, abusive legislation is in direct violation of the Constitution. You have read neither. Your vapid “arguments” are the evidence. I can cite the parts of the bill which include the student loan bailouts, the expanded IRS thuggery, the astronomical costs, the penalties for not kowtowing to ObamaCare.

Since you haven’t and will never read the bill….for your edification:
Specifics from H.R. 3590:
Forced purchase of government health care.
Subtitle F—Shared Responsibility for Health Care
PART I—INDIVIDUAL RESPONSIBILITY
SEC. 1501. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.
21 (a) FINDINGS.—Congress makes the following findings:
23 (1) IN GENERAL.—The individual responsibility requirement provided for in this section (in this subsection referred to as the ‘‘requirement’’) is commercial and economic in nature, and substantially affects interstate commerce, as a result of the effects described in paragraph (2).
(2) EFFECTS ON THE NATIONAL ECONOMY AND
INTERSTATE COMMERCE.—The effects described in this paragraph are the following:
(A) The requirement regulates activity that is commercial and economic in nature: economic and financial decisions about how and when health care is paid for, and when health insurance is purchased.
……C) The requirement, together with the other provisions of this Act, will add millions of new consumers to the health insurance market, increasing the supply of, and demand for, health care services. According to the Congressional Budget Office, the requirement will increase the number and share of Americans who are insured.
……(G) Under sections 2704 and 2705 of the Public Health Service Act (as added by section 1201 of this Act), if there were no requirement, many individuals would wait to purchase health insurance until they needed care. By significantly increasing health insurance coverage, the requirement, together with the other provisions of this Act, will minimize this adverse selection and broaden the health insurance risk pool to include healthy individuals, which will lower health insurance premiums. The requirement is essential to creating effective health insurance markets in which improved health insurance products that are guaranteed issue and do not exclude coverage of pre-existing conditions can be sold.

Translation: This government-run program is being forced on you. It will add millions of dependents to the health care system without a choice of when, where, or from whom to purchase a plan. It’s gonna be a boon for the government, a bust for the American taxpaying consumer. If you think it will lower the premiums as claimed in the bill, I’ve got a bridge in Brooklyn for sale….cheap.
And ta daaaaa! Here’s the part that tells you about the punishment for non-compliance to Big Brother.

CHAPTER 48—MAINTENANCE OF MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE
Sec. 5000A. REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.
(a) REQUIREMENT TO MAINTAIN MINIMUM ESSENTIAL COVERAGE.—An applicable individual shall for each
24 month beginning after 2013 ensure that the individual, and any dependent of the individual who is an applicable individual, is covered under minimum essential coverage for such month.
(b) SHARED RESPONSIBILITY PAYMENT.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—If an applicable individual fails to meet the requirement of subsection (a) for 1 or more months during any calendar year beginning after 2013, then, except as provided in subsection (d), there is hereby imposed a penalty with respect to the individual in the amount determined under subsection (c).
(2) INCLUSION WITH RETURN.—Any penalty imposed by this section with respect to any month shall be included with a taxpayer’s return under chapter 1 for the taxable year which includes such month.
(3) PAYMENT OF PENALTY.—If an individual with respect to whom a penalty is imposed by this section for any month—
(A) is a dependent (as defined in section 152) of another taxpayer for the other taxpayer’s taxable year including such month, such other taxpayer shall be liable for such penalty,
(B) files a joint return for the taxable year including such month, such individual and the spouse of such individual shall be jointly liable for such penalty.
(c) AMOUNT OF PENALTY.—
(1) IN GENERAL.—The penalty determined under this subsection for any month with respect to any individual is an amount equal to 1⁄12 of the applicable dollar amount for the calendar year.
And how do they plan on paying for all this? Why, with our taxes of course. To the tune of billions, starting with excise taxes and annual fees.

TITLE IX—REVENUE PROVISIONS
Subtitle A—Revenue Offset Provisions
SEC. 9001. EXCISE TAX ON HIGH COST EMPLOYER-SPONSORED HEALTH COVERAGE.
Sec. 9004. Increase in additional tax on distributions from HSAs and Archer MSAs not used for qualified medical expenses.
Sec. 9008. Imposition of annual fee on branded prescription pharmaceutical manufacturers and importers.
Sec. 9009. Imposition of annual fee on medical device manufacturers and importers.
Sec. 9010. Imposition of annual fee on health insurance providers.
Sec. 9012. Elimination of deduction for expenses allocable to Medicare Part D
Sec. 9015. Additional hospital insurance tax on high-income taxpayers.
Sec. 9017. Excise tax on elective cosmetic medical procedures.
Source for information: http://democrats.senate.gov/reform/patient-protection-affordable-care-act.pdf
The new bill will have an initial cost of $849 billion, which doesn’t include all of the tax increases they have is store.
The Budget Committee estimates a $2.5 trillion cost over 10 years. The CBO says taxes will go up $493.6 billion, while Medicare will be cut $464.6 billion.
All revenue figures are revenues raised over the ten-year period 2010-2019:

1. 40% excise tax on health coverage in excess of $8,500 (individuals) / $23,000 (families). Amounts are indexed for inflation by CPI-U + 1% – begins in 2013 – $149 B tax increase
2. Additional 0.5% Medicare (Hospital Insurance) tax on wages in excess of $200,000 ($250,000 for joint filers) – begins in 2013 – $54 B tax increase
3. Impose annual fee on manufacturers and importers of branded drugs – begins in 2010 – $22 B tax increase
4. Impose annual fee on manufacturers and importers of certain medical devices – begins in 2010 – $19 B tax increase
5. Impose annual fee on manufacturers and importers of certain medical devices – begins in 2010 – $60 B tax increase
6. Cut in half (to $500K) the amount of an executive’s compensation that a health plan can deduct from its corporate income taxes – begins in 2013 – $600 million tax increase
7. Impose 5% excise tax on cosmetic surgery and similar procedures – begins for surgery in 2010 – $6 B tax increase!
In total the bill would raise taxes by $370 billion over ten years.
http://keithhennessey.com/2009/11/18/reid-tax-increases/

More sources: http://www.jct.gov/publications.html?func=startdown&id=3635
http://www.weeklystandard.com/weblogs/TWSFP/2009/11/reids_2074page_health_care_bil_1.asp

And we have to give credit to Obama’s Flying Monkeys; the SEIU, for their role in this:

From 2000 to current, SEIU has spent at least $187,500,000 through combined lobbying, PAC and 527s group donations and expenses on candidates and policy issues – nearly 100% of which went to Democrats and to liberal policy initiatives. Much has been focused on influencing universal health care, as well as other indirectly related health legislation, such as public nutrition, food safety, research, and environmental health – all part of SEIU’s supposed plan for Building a New American Health Care System. Because, in their words, they “will not stop until every man, woman and child has quality, affordable care they can count on.”
So really…why is SEIU so invested in health care?

Because health care is the lifeblood of SEIU. In January of 2007, SEIU announced it would combine over 30 of its local unions to form a National Health Care Division. Years of organizing independent workers, such as home child care and foster care providers, home health aides, and nutritionists had led SEIU to discover untapped potential in what it deemed “health care workers”. With three divisions – Health Care, Public Services and Property Services – SEIU’s members are nurses, dieticians, lab techs, nursing home & home care workers, and child care providers. Others are janitors, cafeteria workers, and other service workers in state/public facilities like hospitals, schools and stadiums. SEIU has made health a key driver to creating these jobs. And they know the best way to protect their lifeblood is to entrench themselves into the legislative / policy-making process on a more permanent level. While two million members in SEIU is impressive, apparently they don’t feel it’s enough to build an empire.
http://biggovernment.com/2009/11/16/seiu-building-a-new-american-health-care-empire/

This bill also negatively affects other eeeeeevil capitalists: small business owners: http://www.smallbusinesshealthcarecoalition.com/Portals/2/KeyVote-Senate-%20H.R.%203590%20-%2012-2.pdf

There’s no mistaking the intent of the far-left dingbats in the Dem Party:
http://www.breitbart.tv/shocking-audio-rep-dingell-says-obamacare-will-eventually-control-the-people
This is all under the guise of that utopian “health care for all the people”. Uh huh.
Their words and deeds. Evidence.

It’s weird how most of the links you send have presumptive evidence; “will”, “feel that” are not concrete. Do you need someone to sit down and explain this to you? You do seem to struggle. How about reading this to counter many of your kooky claims: http://mediamatters.org/research/200908200002

Media Matters??? Talk about kooky. One of the most left-wing web sites on the planet: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/groupProfile.asp?grpid=7150 Fucking. Please. And you have the chutzpah to call yourself a “free thinker?? Try again.

Wow. Thanks for giving me that history lesson. I’ll forever hold dear that nothing ever changes in history. What happens once will continue to happen ad infinitum. If you had been taught anything during your time, you would have realised that the Republican Party then and the Republican party now share only a name in common, same applies for the Democrats. For one thing, the Republican Party used to attract the African American vote until around the mid part of the 20th Century before it switched to the Democrats. And what’s more it was the southern Democrats who opposed Lincoln not the unified Democratic Party. So in your own words “Learn about American History before you attempt to re-write it”.

Wow. You’re welcome. Since the 1960’s the Dems have sold minorities a rotten bill of goods. They are elitist poufs who manipulate the unionized working class, the poor, and minorities into believing that in spite of the stark contrast between their lifestyles and their constituents, they really care. (wink,wink) The Dems have a long history of hypocrisy and exploitation of minorities. They need those “victims” as a voting bloc. Who will vote for them if they run out of uneducated, poor, downtrodden, perpetual welfare recipients? If you RE-READ the comment I posted, you’ll note the term “Dixiecrat”. That specifically refers to the South. Not that you’re familiar with American history. I hate to break this to you, but they carried a lot of authority and weight across the Senate and Congress, hence the Jim Crow laws. You need to take a few extra classes. Again, learn about our history before you re-write it. Otherwise, it’s just a lot of tripe from a limey snob.
And, contrary to liberal propaganda, not all minorities are in lockstep with Dem liberals. http://theblacksphere.blogspot.com/2009/04/racist-garofalo-to-rescue

“Let’s not misquote statistics now, because a Gallup poll found that more people were in favour of the passing of the Bill, whilst the figure you’re quoting pertains to people who believe that the Republicans should still continue to fight. As I said in my last post, these two cancel each other out. Because the lessons you are attempting so valiantly to teach, are wrong (once again you over egg the statement, when will you learn), as there is no “complete control”.

Once people actually read and understood what was in the bill, they quickly changed their minds. AGAIN: We are in favor of health care reform; NOT government control. Why do you think they want the Republicans to continue the fight? They do not like what’s in the bill. Here’s another poll: Congressional approval rate is at an all time low, 18%. Obama’s rate is at 44%: http://www.realclearpolitics.com/epolls/other/congressional_job_approval-903.html
And you come up with a candy-assed excuse that the two polls somehow “cancel each other out”.
Try again. I know you will.

“The only place I lose is in opposite land, where you are the Chairperson of Rationality.
If you’re so worried about the debt, you should really support the Bill, as I’ve said many a time, the non-partisan, independent body, the CBO have found that it cuts the debt. Not that you’ll care because that’s evidence, which you seem to have a particular distaste for.”

Wrong. From the CBO: http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&sid=aNaqecavD9ek
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123776518094909023.html
The CBO, unlike people in “opposite land”, understands that you cannot spend your way out of a deficit. How’s that taste?

“Actually, Naomi Klein is held in high regard globally. I’m sure she’ll be crying into her pillow tonight because some ignoramus doesn’t quite grasp her not too difficult position. Perhaps you should try reading her book rather than regurgitating what some other garbled brained moron thinks. Obviously the thought that businesses, with their profit centric focus may not be working in the national interest (just look at outsourcing), hasn’t crosses your mind. But then in your mind, anyone who even briefly thinks about criticising a business must be a raving socialist.

Oh, no doubt she’s respected….among the leftwing crowd. Obviously, you forgot about Klein’s raving socialist viewpoints. She doesn’t just “criticize business”, she’s an ardent anti-capitalist and rants against the “rising capitalist disaster” every chance she gets. She’s not exactly a fan of Milton Friedman. She writes for The Nation on a regular basis. Her parents were one-time members of the communist party. She rails against “globalization”. In other words, she’s a raving socialist. It’s not a stretch: http://www.discoverthenetworks.org/individualProfile.asp?indid=2131

Whilst I agree that China is a worse polluter, that doesn’t give licence for the USAs to abrogate its duty to not poison the atmosphere too. No nation should look at another and say ‘well if they’re not doing it, I’m not either”, that is a recipe for disaster, neither can you continue to make a more than sizeable contribution to pollution levels and hide behind the global leader. It’s shameful. How can you say that the US has some of the “most restrictive regulations anywhere” when you didn’t sign up to the Kyoto Protocol?

“A license to pollute”?? Tell you what, when you turn some of that righteous eco-indignation toward the rest of the world, then you might have a little credence. Have you read any of our EPA regulations? Do that before you spew crap about the “Kyoto Protocol”. “Man-made” climate change is a fucking hoax. The looney theories of the ‘global warming’ cult have been repeatedly debunked, yet they persist with the doomsday crap. Dissent is usually squelched.
FYI:

CHICAGO, Illinois – December 3, 2007) — As the first goals of the Kyoto Protocol are about to expire, the United Nations is preparing a “Conference of the Parties,” the highest decision-making authority. The meeting will take place in Bali, Indonesia from December 3 to December 5.
But the event lost any claim of impartiality when organizers rejected attempts by representatives of Environment & Climate News to receive press accreditation for the conference.
UN press office coordinator Carrie Assheuer said the newspaper’s representatives “do not meet the criteria for press accreditation.” Environment & Climate News has been in continual publication for 10 years; is sent to more than 75,000 elected officials, opinion leaders, and environmental professionals in the United States; and is one of five newspapers published the by 23-year-old Heartland Institute.
James M. Taylor, managing editor of Environment & Climate News, stated, “Ms. Assheuer’s decision is stunningly totalitarian. Environment & Climate News is an excellent newspaper sent to educate elected officials on the latest developments in climate science for over a decade. We have had dozens of reporters over the years and this is the first time we have had press credentials denied.”
The Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change has been criticized in the past for censoring dissenting voices in favor of a pre-determined political outcome. Even strong cautions were widely ignored, as in the Second Order Draft Comments (Chapter 6; section 6-42), when Eric Steig cautioned, “In general, the certainty with which this chapter presents our understanding of abrupt climate change is overstated. There is confusion between hypothesis and evidence throughout the chapter.”
A dissenting group of distinguished scientists from the International Climate Science Coalition, representing Africa, Australia, New Zealand, the United Kingdom, and the United States, will be available for advice and counsel in Bali, but they expect to be ignored at the conference as European liberal politicians monopolize the agenda and allow for no dissent.
Link: http://www.heartland.org/Article.cfm?artId=22385

Ah you’re right……..oh wait, no, I HAVE been to the Middle East (Syria and Lebanon) so do know from personal experience, that not everyone there is a potential jihadist waiting to blow infidels up. In fact people were charming, lovely, and accepting. Try reading any books on terrorism and its causes then we’ll compare notes ok sweetpea?

Lovely, charming and accepting…uh huh. Sure, they are sweetpea. Every Islamic nation state is just bursting with peace, love, and kumbaya: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/
Syria and Lebanon are two major contributors to terrorism. I saw up close the results of all that “charm”. “Lovely” doesn’t come to mind. I was part of the counter-terrorism and war effort. You were a tourist. How quaint.

“What books have you read? Are they analytical books, or simply WW2 For Dummies? I learnt years ago, when I was still in school about the use of socialism label for attracting voters.”

The attraction to socialism usually works on people under the age of 30, who have no brain.

“So once again, The Nazis used the moniker “socialist” to appeal to the average German worker, as they relied on the grassroots support, and anger directed towards the ruling classes for their signing of the Treaty of Versailles to gain power. Fascism and socialism are two different theories, which may coincide, or may not. One is not a prerequisite of the other. Socialism is an economic theory, whilst fascism is one solely centred around power, each has different motives: socialism for the collective good, fascism for the good of one, thus are different.”

The “centered around power” theory didn’t apply to the Nazis? They initially gained influence over the exploitation of the aftermath of WWI; the severe economic depression, and the harsh conditions brought by the Treaty of Versailles. How in the hell do you think they maintained control? The SS and the Gestapo.
Socialist theory, when applied, takes over private industry BY FORCE.
Here’s the definition for Dummies:
so•cial•ism [soh-shuh-liz-uh m]
–noun
1. a theory or system of social organization that advocates the vesting of the ownership and control of the means of production and distribution, of capital, land, etc., in the community as a whole.
2. procedure or practice in accordance with this theory.
3. (in Marxist theory) the stage following capitalism in the transition of a society to communism, characterized by the imperfect implementation of collectivist principles.

The Nazi State took total control of everything, like the Soviets.
Wages and prices were controlled–under penalty of being sent to the concentration camp. Dividends were restricted to six percent on book capital. And strategic goals to be reached at all costs (much like Soviet planning) were declared: the construction of synthetic rubber plants, more steel plants, automatic textile factories, etc.

Again, fascist and socialist systems aren’t that dissimilar.

I just assume that everyone who spouts shit watches Glenn Beck. My mistake. You’re a loon independently….
“You really do argue against yourself. How can 3 million be ‘the majority of Americans’?”

3 million is just the viewership. The issues Beck discusses are representative of the 62% of Americans who for instance, disagree with ObamaCare. Even to a leftwing clod, that should be obvious.

Obviously you are unaware of the concept perfect knowledge, it isn’t merely an adjective. And how can you have ‘perfect knowledge’ when people are espousing all kinds of incorrect statements: “Keep your government hands off my Medicare”.

How about “keep your hands off my healthcare”. That’s a more accurate statement.

Gees, I wasn’t talking about the legitimacy of the Constitution, I was instead referring to the sense of righteousness you and your motley crew have by standing under the banner of the Constitution.

You betcha. Especially when the motley crew of Dem politicians trample all over it. How dare we have a sense of righteousness and demand they actually follow the Constitution they are sworn to protect? That concept is lost on you.

“For someone who lives thousands of miles away, I think I understand your country much better than you do. In any case, much better than you understand any other country on the planet. And by ‘people’ I think you mean ‘understanding me’ as there are millions of well-intentioned Americans out there, shame they are kept in a neutral balance by you lot.”

You denigrate Americans for protesting the evisceration of freedoms and Constitutional violations on the part of power-hungry politicians, yet you think you understand my country? You’re so full of shit, your eyes are brown. One could wade into your ‘intellect’ and not even get their feet damp. You understand nothing. The incessant claims of “misguided”, “brainwashed” and it’s ‘all Glenn Beck’s fault’ is just plain stupid. On the 11th of this month, I’ll be attending a Tea Party protest in town. I’ll be sure to inform all of those folks that some limey assclown thinks that he understands the country better than us. They’ll get a kick out of that.

“So by your own admission they aren’t high, they are just high for you. How is it a Euro disaster? Just wait…..no, no….Europe is still here.

They aren’t high enough? Oh yeah, let’s wait until it gets as bad as yours. Sure thing, bud.

“I’m beginning to think that everything you have *ahem* knowledge of, is from your time serving. Just because you had experience in the military doesn’t mean you were in the driving seat creating it, or are sufficiently knowledgeable to claim to be the sole receptacle of truth in regards to political motivations. Just because you were serving doesn’t mean you can view the full picture, it gives you a very narrow view of the world, especially through the military complex, where mite=right.”

I was an S2 and a G2 NCOIC. Not that you know what that is. I was part of the planning, intel efforts, and combat/counter terrorism operations in Desert Storm, Bosnia, and Operation Iraqi Freedom. I took part in strategic and tactical intelligence operations around the world. Last I checked, the Islamofascists started this war. If you don’t want the “mite=right” shit, don’t pick a fight with us. If you do, we’ll have to come to where you live and kick your ass.
When you have something to contribute to this conversation besides the idiotic claim that my experience and knowledge aren’t sufficient enough, then I might grant you an iota of consideration. Until then, you’re just so much hot air.

“Actually, I was referring to the differences between socialism and communism.”

Not a whole lot of difference. Socialism and communism are alike in that both are systems of production for use based on public ownership of the means of production and centralized planning. Socialism is just one step removed from communism.

“OK, as stated in America’s New Democracy (Fiorina et al), in the section Federalism it so says: “The Constitution was a vague document open to numerous interpretations” and Table 3.1 on p45 clearly shows the powers granted to national and state. Spoiler alert: National wins, what with the Supremacy Clause. But I have noticed you have only claimed to understand it (a claim I can’t help but suspend belief on) but not given any evidence toward. Now it is your time to step up and show your mettle.”

‘Vague document’?? …holy crap, you are really a piece of work. There’s no vagueness about the limitations placed to the Federal government in the Constitution. Again, if you actually read it, you’d know. Not that you have the capacity to understand: The tenth amendment declares that “the powers not delegated to the United States by the Constitution, nor prohibited by it to the States, are reserved to the States respectively, or to the people.” The Federalists maintained that the Framers at Philadelphia had meant from the first that all powers not specifically assigned to the Federal government were reserved to the States or the people of the States.
The Federal government has whittled away at that amendment for years. That’s just one of the issues at stake with ObamaCare. The power given to the Federal government comes from the STATES, not the other way around. Spoiler for you: It’s pretty specific about those rights.
Mettle demonstrated.

“Student Loans: Is the healthcare debate the first time you’ve looked at a bill? Are you not aware of the pork-barrel add-ons that get tagged along with a Bill. Rightly or wrongly, it happens. Somehow regulating the amount that students (they were there before this was created, in case you weren’t aware of that) have to pay on interest isn’t ‘creating another entitlement group’, and it is pretty impossible with the normal paths logic follows to get to that conclusion.”

That’s not the point. Americans are sick to death of the riders and other items being snuck into major legislation. If the title of the bill says “health care”, then every item in it should relate to that. That’s been a problem with our Congress and Senate for years. They attach all kinds of bullshit like pork barrel earmarks to bills on a regular basis. If you allow the government to assume the responsibility of student loans, you have created another entitlement group. They’ll end up getting bailed out with taxpayer money. How is that not government-created “entitlement”?

“This just plumbs the depths of your ignorance. Scraping the barrel of your stupidity. Reaching rock bottom of banality. To not be able to see past your rose-tinted blinkers and realise that SOME business can do ill (you only seem to have a problem if pollution occurs in other countries). To be critical of business doesn’t equate you automatically to a wholehearted belief in socialism, it just means you think that businesses should act with the same kind of morality that the humans they comprise of do (well some anyway).”

Oh fucking waaaaaaaaaah!!! My gawd, you cannot get past the “eeeeeeevil capitalist” mantra. Everyone, according to your “thinking” (and that’s being generous) is a “polluter”. Your criticism of business comes from a socialist perspective, so it’s impossible to take you seriously. Your complaints about industry are based (mostly) on economic theory. Hint: It’s not free market enterprise.

Whilst I commend you on making something of your life, you have simultaneously supported two of my previous points: 1) that I fully support getting people back into work, no one argues against that. No one disagrees with that. The people who hang around the dole queue week after week thinking that they can live off the state are spongers, but they need to be shown the right path. 2) In one of my first replies I said that most of the measures form a supportive base rather than a reason to side-step work which fits in with your ‘helping hand not a handout’.

“Shown the right path”…How do you intend to do that, when the public dole is not only easy to sponge off of, but perpetuates the welfare class? Three points: 1. Motivation starts at home. It’s not the responsibility of the government to replace the parent. If you have children you cannot afford, you are a burden to society and you place an unfair burden on your children. 2. The expansion of government taxpayer funded entitlements is enormous. They’re going about it the wrong way. The right angle would be to encourage job creation with tax incentives and laissez faire. You cannot have government interference to the extent it is now, and expect the economy to flourish. 3. On the educational level, our public schools have become an absolute mess. The NEA has fits anytime there’s a demand for performance and merit-based education. Kids aren’t learning even the rudimentary skills needed to function in everyday life.

“You cannot say that you “understand society” when you just understand your own wherewithal and no one else’s. How many times: “because I said so” doesn’t work. You seem so contented sitting in your ivory tower, looking down on us mere mortals, that you missed the memo that everybody has different motivations, beliefs, environments etc. You operate a top down kind of logic that is wrong in this kind of situation, a kind of template that can be applied onto all and sundry. So please dismount from your high horse, and stop acting like you are the Grand Sage of America, it gets tiring.”

The way you pontificate, one gets the distinct impression you own the Ivory Tower. It’s amusing to see you mistake an unvarnished view of politics and society as “high horse”. LOL! You have no idea how funny that is. You wonder why Americans view Brits as snobby little twits. Thank you for proving my point. We haven’t been part of the British Colonies for over 200 years. It must really piss you off. Damned Yankees! LOL!

“Realism” = pessimism. Obviously I must be mistaken and you’ve undertaken an extensive analysis of society, and the economic system and come to the reasoned conclusion that “the opportunities are there” and evenly accessible. Or you just fart out any crap you see is fit, because if you’ve got to the top then everyone must be able to.

Dude, is that what comes out of that shit factory you call a brain? The “land of opportunity” concept may have taken a hit in recent years, but the possibilities are still there. As I’ve said: The world doesn’t owe you a living. That’s an idea best left in the trash can of socialist ideology.

“I fail to see how working in counter-terrorism gives you a detachment everyone else is lacking? Oh wait, it doesn’t, you just like to think it does as you have nothing else to use as evidence so instead resort to vague language about your life. Bravo.”

“You fail to see”…that’s the first truthful statement you’ve made. As a Soldier and Intelligence Analyst, I was anything but detached. Vague? Are you drunk?

“Obviously you missed the point of Rendition (psst, he was innocent all along), even though it wasn’t that difficult to get…..”

Rendition: a bad Hollywood leftwing version of how horrible it is to torture those poor innocent misunderstood terrorists. http://filmfreakcentral.net/screenreviews/rendition.htm

“…you must have been really bad at your job, as you seem to not understand evidence when it is presented to you. Were you the one who made the 45 min Iraqi deployment claim? Wouldn’t surprise me….”

Let’s see….I was part of an intel team who helped send many, many terrorists and enemy combatants to allah. I’d say I was pretty good at my job. 45 minutes? Nah, an hour, tops.

“WMD wielding megalomania”, you said you worked in intel right? News flash: THERE WERE NO WMDS. Does news take a while to filter through your brain? Do you think people are fighting against Medicare/Medicaid?

You have reading skills, right?
Saddam Hussein had WMDs, a WMD program, and terrorist connections. There’s plenty of open source material to substantiate Hussein’s violations and intent:
1) Declassified NGIC report:
http://www.foxnews.com/projects/pdf/Iraq_WMD_Declassified.pdf
http://www.defenselink.mil/news/newsarticle.aspx?id=15918
2) 1.77 metric tons of enriched uranium:
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/3872201.stm
3) 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons agents:
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2005/08/13/AR2005081300530.html
4) Looting of WMD facilities:
In the weeks after Baghdad fell in April 2003, looters systematically dismantled and removed tons of machinery from Saddam Hussein’s most important weapons installations, including some with high-precision equipment capable of making parts for nuclear arms, a senior Iraqi official said this week in the government’s first extensive comments on the looting.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/international/middleeast/13loot.html?pagewanted=1
The UN admitted that Iraq had over six tons of anthrax, most of it weaponized, right up until the invasion.
http://www.liveleak.com/view?i=07b_1186980879
Those weapons were previously unknown to U.N. inspectors; they were concealed. Those are weapons and materials Hussein was not supposed to possess, yet he did.
5) Last major stockpile from Saddam’s nuclear efforts (the yellowcake that Joe Wilson claimed Saddam never had) arrives in Canada:
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/25546334/
Oh yeah, and his terrorist connections:
He gave thousands of dollars to families of suicide bombers and in addition, Iraqi intelligence met with al Qadea operatives and provided with training camps in Northern Iraq:
The Mother of All Connections
July 18, 2005: A special report on the new evidence of collaboration between Saddam Hussein’s Iraq and al Qaeda.
by Stephen F. Hayes & Thomas Joscelyn
07/18/2005, Volume 010, Issue 41
Link: http://www.weeklystandard.com/Content/Public/Articles/000/000/005/804yqqnr.asp?pg=1
By the way, Saddam Hussein’s duplicitous behavior clearly indicated his intent to continue with his WMD program. That is a fact.
Saddam himself stated that unequivocally:
“The factories are present,” an Iraqi aide tells Saddam on one of the tapes, made by the dictator in the mid-1990s while U.N. weapons inspectors were searching for Baghdad’s remaining stocks of weapons of mass destruction.
“The factories remain, in the mind they remain. Our spirit is with us, based solely on the time period,” the aide says, according to the documents. “And [inspectors] take note of the time period, they can’t account for our will.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20060313-123146-7380r.htm
Those materials could have easily been adapted to warheads and other methods of dispersal. Weapons of mass destruction are defined as weapons capable of inflicting massive destruction to property and/or population, using chemical, biological or radioactive material.
I imagine all we should have done is simply wait for him to pull another Halabja…only on a much larger scale.

“How far down the barrel did they have to scrape to come up with those three stooges?” Who would you have preferred to have seen get the award then?

How about someone besides an abject failure, a “climate change “ huckster, and a socialist empty suit? Surely they can do better.

“If you knew anything about the Islamic faith it would be that the Islamist extremists misrepresent a warped theology. Their world view is based on a completely incorrect interpretation on the Qur’an, but then that takes a breadth of thinking you have time and time again shown you are incapable of. Nowhere in the Qur’an does it say that Infidels must die, you have been brainwashed into thinking that. Similarly that they wanted to attack the West anyway: where is your proof? It’s nowhere, it’s none existant, because you think that you don’t need any as long as you say ‘no, that’s wrong’. Please, I am beginning to feel sorry for how warped your mindset is that you keep trotting out this regurgitated nonsense without thinking where it has come from and why”

There’s that idiotic “brainwashed” retort. Is that all you’ve got? Infidels=”unbelievers”. Keep that in mind as you read the following:
XVI.8: It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, and if you (again return to disobedience) we too will return (to punishment), and We have made hell a prison for the unbelievers.
II.161: Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allah and the angels and men all.
IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.
IV.74: Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God’s path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward. (Must be those 72 virgins)
VIII.39-42: Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God’s.
4.56: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.
5.51: O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.
Oh yeah, Islam is chock full of peace, love, and granola. I’ve seen the results of that “peaceful religion”. I want no part of it.

I agree with you. Wholeheartedly so. But you don’t agree with you. You seem to think that Government intervention is OK if you like it. You can’t pick and chose when it is acceptable. Why is the Pell Grant anything less than a market distortion, or a government intrusion into the education industry?

Say again, over? I have NEVER said that I like government intervention, at all. The less, the better. The Pell Grant is optional, not a forced mandate like ObamaCare and the direct takeover of all student loans. Apples and Oranges.

The UN serves a role for promoting continued co-operating, so countries talk instead of blowing themselves to bits. Surely that’s reason to exist in itself.

It’s got a lot of catching up to do. People are “blowing themselves to bits” all around the world. U.N. “role” notwithstanding.

It doesn’t surprise me that you don’t believe in climate change. Obviously if there’s evidence you’ll be against it.

It’s not man-made, regardless of what Al Gore tells you.

“Yes, you’ve been on the ground, but you’ve also been deeply embedded within a particular groupthink, which distorts your perception. And this is abstract power I was talking about not the version you’re thinking of.”

“Distorted perception”? That’s funny as hell. You keep telling yourself that if it makes you feel more comfortable in your delusion.

“Why do you continue to miss the point? It is your will or your nature? By proving the linkage between Communism and oppression, it can then be applied to the real world.”

The linkage between Communism and oppression is well established.

…“keep most of what they earn is immoral.” No one is asking for “most”. Exaggerating again.

You’re not asking for a reasonable tax system, either.

“….How moral is it for a death company (you have death panels, I’ll start death companies) to take away insurance when people get sick? How moral is it for a death company to use the term chronic to cover most illnesses? How moral is it to not want your fellow citizens to have some standard of healthcare for having to fork over a tiny percentage of your income (or nothing if you don’t earn enough – read the Media Matters article again).

How moral is it for a government to ration and degrade the quality of health care, and tax the hell out of people to do it?
Media Matters….LOL!
Your sense of morality is bat-shit crazy.

“Evidence seems to be one thing you and your Rightards are incapable of. You’re like little chicks who regurgitate the same drivel that Mama Bird, Fox News hands to you, and because they say it, it MUST be fact.”

Yeah, I see hoards of people flocking to Britain and Canada because of the wonderful state of health care. Uh huh.
Keep reading The Guardian. It’s so predictable.

SFC MAC

flamjew,

Wanting to give a base level….

The way to maintain a decent standard of living is through economic free enterprise, not the socialist takeover of private enterprise. Economies thrive much better when people have the opportunity to excel and invest their own money, efforts, and ideas into business without oppressive government stupidity.
I know what I’m talking about. Case in point: My hometown is 30 miles west of Cleveland. The entire North East Ohio area has been in a Democratic economically-depressed stranglehold for decades.
READ my post on this: http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/life-in-a-democratic-stronghold/
Corporations and even small businesses have moved to other states so they can flourish in business-friendly environment. Companies provide employment and raise the standard of living in communities. That’s something the Dems can’t wrap their minds around without destroying the economy or their neighborhoods. Socialism is diametrically opposed to economic productivity and competition.
FYI: Real charity comes from the heart, not at the barrel of a socialist gun.
The Left always knows how everyone else’s money should be spent.

“Socialism is a philosophy of failure, the creed of ignorance, and the gospel of envy. The inherent vice of capitalism is the unequal sharing of blessings; the inherent virtue of socialism is the equal sharing of miseries.”
—Winston Churchill

We take care of our needy. Why in the hell do you think we have welfare, Medicare, and Medicaid? All three are broke by the way, thanks to government pilfering from those benefits to spend on other wasteful projects. More of that will happen thanks to Obama. The ObamaCare bill will cull billions from Medicare to shove into feckless spending.

On a side note: Our generosity extends well into foreign aid. This country is the most philanthropic entity on the planet. We bailed out Mexico to the tune of 50 billion dollars, only to see the customary refusal of a third world cesspool to modernize. We spend billions on taxpayer funded relief efforts in Haiti, Africa, Indonesia and Asia. We’ve been throwing money at “developing countries” for decades without proper accountability and they’ve yet to develop into civilized nations.
Impoverished societies are a breeding ground for terrorists and other extremists because of several factors, not the least of which is the unwillingness to affect change. No birth control, no disease control, no personal responsibility, no infrastructure, but there’s plenty of despots and pigs at the trough.

Using your “communist/socialist” argument. Let’s flip-reverse that: you’re right-wing, therefore you must be a fascist Nazi. You killed millions of Jews. Doesn’t work does it? No. So learn the boundaries of your argument….

First of all the Nazis were SOCIALIST. Secondly, “social justice” in the mind of a nilihist always involves a complete destruction of free market enterprise and individual freedoms. An American five year old can put the “boundaries” of your arguments to shame.
The more you vent, the more you resemble:

There is no real answer but to remove, brick by brick, the capitalist system itself, rebuilding the entire society on socialist principles.
—Robert McChesney

“We have to help bring this government down, we have to help destroy this system and that requires increasing the alienation that working class and oppressed people feel. The way change is going to happen in this country is through the destruction of what we call the United States of America.
……I am opposed to the system we traditionally call imperialism and the idea that some people have rights and privileges that are not granted to all human beings. And the solution to that problem is called communism and socialism and we should put it in our mouths. We should say it when we say what is your politics? I am a socialist. I demand that we have health care for people and it’s not a demand that’s negotiable with health insurance companies.
We will take your insurance companies; we will take the farms in this country; we will shut down the military apparatus in this country and I am tired of being told to stuff my anger back in my pants.”
—Communist Jed Brandt at the Brecht Forum in New York, 16 September 2009.

You and you ilk in Britain have a lot in common with idiots like them. That’s the same type of nihilist shit that abounds in Obama’s inner circle of friends and appointees. Van Jones, Cass Sunstein, Valerie Jarrett, Andy Stern, Mark Lloyd, Anita Dunn, and Robert Creamer, the convicted felon/architect of ObamaCare.
Creamer’s intentions had nothing to do with increasing access to health care, lowering its cost or increasing its quality. As he stated in his book, Listen to Your Mother: Stand Up Straight! How Progressives Can Win, health care was to be the first in a set of steps aimed at a radical redistribution of wealth and a massive increase in government control.
Every one of them would have been well-suited for the Soviet Politburo. That’s exactly what you sound like.

Glenn Beck reflects the feelings of the majority of American citizens. We want our government to
respect and follow the Constitution, not the Communist Manifesto. There are millions of ordinary folks across this country who never thought about attending rallies or protests until we were faced with a malevolent government, hellbent on taking us to hell in a socialist handbasket. We won’t march to Obamessiah’s socialist drum, therefore, we must be “nutjobs”. Marginalization has already been tried by Obama and the rest of the Dems. It won’t work.
If that’s a “bad thing”, it’s because it offends your socialist ideology. Too bad.

This is where we fundamentally disagree. You see taxes as hideously bad; the government as hell-bent on destroying America (unless it’s a Republican one); helping the poor as possibly the worst thing ever and will no doubt lead to thousands of Americans ending up in Gulags.

I made these comments to a poster on another thread:
Basic economic facts: You cannot spend your way out of a deficit.
We already pay high taxes on everything. Property tax, income tax, sales tax, inheritance tax, gas tax, car tax, “sin tax”, license tax, state tax, city tax, taxes on utilities….I can hardly wait until the IRS shows up at funerals to see what else it can get…oh wait, it already does; in the form of more state, local, and sales taxes. Increased taxes are NOT the answer. The government can save money by cutting spending, and in addition to the many taxes they already collect, both can be used to decrease the debt. Tax reform in the application of a Fair Tax initiative, would be great, across the board.
You’re trying to justify tax increases to cover spending that will never abate. Let’s cut spending first. The money saved can go into decreasing the debt. If we keep doing that, there won’t be a deficit.

There’s a connection between lower taxes and increased job growth. Business owners create employment. The more tax penalties you shove onto businesses, the less they will hire. Our unemployment rate is approaching 15%. You’d think the government would have figured this out by now. Keep in mind that 40% of Americans do not pay taxes. 60% of Americans who are productive shoulder the $1+ trillion burden. Something’s gotta give, and it ain’t gonna be the taxpayers anymore. They’re fed up. The taxpayer base is shrinking. What will they do when they run out of people to gouge?

You have to have some basic understanding of the electoral system. No DEMOCRAT will do anything that will remove the democracy from America as it will harm their chances of being re-elected. You won’t be shimmying up alongside Kim Jong Il any time soon.
The mainstream Republican thought processes have gone so far to the extreme, thereby taking many unthinking people with it too. Fox News and the GOP have manipulated citizens into thinking the worst of people. For shame.

As an American who has voted all of her life, and studied and commented on our political system, I know far more about our electoral system than a snooty little limey effete. Trust me.
The mainstream Republican thought process coincides with Middle America. That’s what scares the leftwing-dominated MSM and the radical Dems. Why in the hell do you think Republican leaders started speaking out in earnest, against the Obama trainwreck? It’s because of citizens like me who read the legislation, witnessed the hubris of the ruling Dem Congress and Senate, and stood up to object. They tried circumventing the Constitution (again) by “deeming” the bill passed without a vote. They continue to ignore the Constitution with their actions. Taxation without representation and forcing the entire country onto shoddy government-controlled socialist health care, are not the kind of principles on which this country was founded. It’s you that haven’t given much thought to this whole disaster.

For one thing, Americans are angry at the tyrannical way this bill was rammed through the legislature without the consent of the American people. Sound familar? I’ll give you a hint: “When in the course of human events…”
Also, if you can’t argue your point without resorting to leftwing hyperbole of “racist” and teabagger”, then the douchebag adjective I use to describe you and your comrades, certainly fits.
As patriots, we are very direct, outspoken, and insistent that our legislators honor and defend the Constitution they were sworn to protect. Last I checked, we still have free speech rights, until Obama suspends and/or passes legislation to do away with them. Given his tactics, that’s not a stretch of the imagination. Since Obama took office, he and the Dem supermajority have trampled all over the Constitution. Look, if your not going to take the time to read and understand it, then don’t bother trying to debate the concepts therein. You look stupid.

Any attempt to approach Dem politicians is rebuffed with dismissive arrogance and threats. At town hall meetings, the electorate questioned the motives and methods of inflicting destructive socialist policies on this country. In turn, they were cussed at, told to “shut up and sit down”, harassed by SEIU thugs, and called “extremists”, red necks”, and a variety of other vulgarities.
Speaking of “not very subtle”, take a gander at the paranoid leftwingnut wack jobs (supporters of the socialist health care wreck) who have lobbed bullets though office buildings and made threats, both email and phone calls, to Republican lawmakers.
http://congress.blogs.foxnews.com/2010/03/25/republicans-target-of-threats-and-violence-from-health-care-debate/

Dem politicians and their supporters have threatened, assaulted, marginalized, sworn at, and name-called constituents who oppose ObamaCare, and the way B. Hussein mangles national security and foreign policy:
http://spectator.org/blog/2009/12/20/democrat-compares-health-care
http://thehill.com/blogs/blog-briefing-room/news/70917-gop-senators-rebuke-reids-slavery-remarks
http://tpmdc.talkingpointsmemo.com/2009/11/dem-congressman-its-unamerican-to-oppose-us-terror-trials.php
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/08/14/the-new-democrats-the-party-of-hate/
Yeah, real subtle.
More “subtlety” from the Left:

http://www.theage.com.au/world/us-election-2008/sarah-palin-effigy-hanged-from-house-20081028-5a2r.html
http://patdollard.com/2008/07/iraq-war-protestor-spits-on-iraq-war-vet-and-more/
http://www.essence.com/news_entertainment/news/articles/mccainsupporterclearsair
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/11/26/seiu-thugs-charged-in-gladney-assault/

There are things in that bill that have nothing to do with health care—reform or otherwise—the takeover of student loans, federal purchases of Viagra and other erectile dysfunction drugs for sex offenders, culling revenue from Medicare, the egregious expansion of the IRS into a health care enforcement agency for those who don’t pay up. This monstrosity will also add billions to the deficit and debt. That is a power grab, not democracy.
62% of Americans want the Republicans to continue fighting this bill. We want it repealed and replaced with a more sensible, less restrictive program.
http://www.cbsnews.com/8301-503544_162-20001117-503544.html

If ObamaCare is so god damned wonderful, why are senior officials scrambling to get out from under its influence?
http://newledger.com/2010/03/exempted-from-obamacare-senior-staff-who-wrote-the-bill/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/23/obamacare-for-everyone-but-obama/
The Democrats don’t even care what’s in this train wreck, they just want to pass it as another step toward government-controlled health care; a system to which they will never subject themselves. You can bet your ass members of Senate and Congress will never tolerate the lengthy wait and deteriorated state of medical care they want to inflict on their constituents.

Much like the socialist/communist regimes throughout history. ‘Do as we say not as we do’. If you think Obama and Pelosi will be on a six-month waiting list for treatment like the rest of us, I have ocean front property in Arizona for sale….cheap. It’s right next to the London Bridge.

Castro is a big fan of ObamaCare. The Cuban population has their own input on Castro’s health care…but it’s not a good thing to say it out loud.
http://www.breitbart.com/article.php?id=D9ELOMH80&show_article=

Thanks to Obama’s stupidity, the economy is sinking further with no end in sight:

Social Security payouts will now exceed what it takes in.
http://www.nytimes.com/2010/03/25/business/economy/25social.html

Joblessness has hit 15% and the 2011 economic forecast isn’t pretty.
http://washingtontimes.com/news/2010/jan/29/troubling-democratic-tremors/

The bank bailout. I stand with you on that. Obama would stand with you on that. Because of your beloved, de-regulated financial system that the banks could get so large that if they were to fail, they would bring down the whole system. No matter who was in charge, unless they had a death wish, it was an imperative action. So that was a nice try with the nationalising, but look for the cause first.

Like the rest of your “facts”, the above statement is an epic fail.
The cause? Look no further than the Democratic Party. It was part and parcel to the Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae/TARP debacle that kicked off the government-dictated subprime lending rates, and subsequent market collapse. They refused to reign in the out of control programs, and as a result, failed banks across the United States were seized by the FDIC. In 2004, Dem leaders Barney Frank, Maxine Waters, and Christopher Dodd, repulsed efforts by the Republicans to monitor and prevent the impending collapse. Obama doesn’t stand for anything except more of the same.

Robert McChesney argues that due to the vastly under-regulated communications industry, the public debate is near absent on the main channels, as people would prefer to be entertained than watch a programme revolving around politics. Because of this it is impinging on your democratic system. How can the average voter expect to be informed enough to cast an educated ballot? This goes right to the centre of media/political communication. It is pretty axiomatic. How would you rectify the situation?

The type of “regulation” McChesney wants is to stifle anything that dissects and criticizes socialism; a real impinging on our democratic system.
All one has to do to be informed is check out CSPAN for broadcasts of legislative procedures and debates, go to websites that breakdown where candidates stand on the issues, read, listen, research. Hell, if they had done that instead of swallowing the ABC-CBS-PBS-NBC-MSNBC Obama pablum, he would have never made it to the primaries.

How is that any different to the insurance companies?

One more time: Government control and elimination of choice is not the answer. I can always switch insurance companies and doctors if I don’t like the service. Under ObamaCare that won’t be possible. It’s a power grab and it will take freedoms from citizens to make their own choices. Insurance premiums will increase. Quality of care will decline. You will be forced to pay for the care of someone other than yourself, even if you are single with no dependents. Small business will suffer. The population will be subjected to draconian regulations.

Those are facts. http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.aspx?id=528137

And this comes straight out of the mouth of Karl Marx:

…..A middle class person wanting to keep the money I’ve earned” – dictionary definition of selfish. I couldn’t have asked for a better definition in a million years. Again you are taking the argument to the extreme. No one is going to take all your money. You can hang onto it, fret not. But can’t you see how paying taxes to an accountable body (the govt) is much better than paying the same money to a profiteering business, who by their very nature do not want to pay out on claims.
I agree with the fact that everyone needs incentive to reward them for working hard, and for working hard in the first place. But what happens if your rewards aren’t as great as others.

Yeah, let’s place so much government regulation and socialist laws on eeeeevil businesses so they can no longer profit, hire people, or contribute to a healthy economy. Damn those profiteering businesses. How dare they make money? Why, that’s not “social justice”, that’s a “human rights” violation! How dare those evil hard working capitalists exist, especially when the welfare class doesn’t ‘get the same rewards’.
When the obsessed get their panties in a wad, they demonize industry.
You are the quintessential communist. ‘From each according to his ability, to each according to his need’. Thank you Karl, I couldn’t have given a better example of communist orthodoxy.

You communist dead heads can’t get it through your thick skulls that the world doesn’t owe you money, or a living. You have to earn that yourself.

For your information: The average industry profit margin is under 4%:

According to the most recent Fortune 500 rankings, health insurers are not even among the top-30 United States industries in profit-margin. Health insurers rank 35th, with a profit-margin of just 2.2 percent — less than one-fifth the profit-margin of railroads. None of the ten largest American health insurers made profits of more than 4.5 percent, and two of them lost money. Health insurers’ collective profit-margin is less than one-eighth that of drug companies and less than one-seventh that of companies that sell medical products or equipment. It’s also less than that of medical facilities. Yet when was the last time you heard President Obama rail against greedy hospitals?
The combined profits of America’s ten largest health insurers are $8.3 billion. That’s less than two-thirds of the profits of Wal-Mart alone, less than half of the profits of General Electric alone, and less than one-seventh of what Medicare loses each year to fraud. Health insurers collectively have one-eighth the profit-margin of McDonald’s or Coke, one-ninth that of eBay, and one-fifteenth that of Merck.
In all, the combined profits of the 14 largest American health insurers (the ones who crack the Fortune 1000) are $8.7 billion. That’s less than 0.4 percent, or 1/250th, of overall U.S. health-care costs, which are $2.5 trillion.
Anyone but an ideologue could plainly see that insurance profits aren’t the problem. The problem is having a health-care system with too many middlemen (government or otherwise); too little competition and choice; and too little opportunity for Americans to control their own health-care dollars, shop for value, or even see prices.
http://healthcare.nationalreview.com/post/?q=Njk4NmQ3YmI1N2QzMWFjMzFiY2ZlMmVjNGUxZTNiMGM=

“Repeal and replace” is coming. You can count on it.

With the income between US citizens fluctuating wildly, how can the US Govt provide “the pursuit of happiness” without getting involved somehow?

Income fluctuates due to the individual skills, education, and motivation of each citizen. I know this may be a difficult concept for a British Royal subject to grasp, but good gawd, I don’t know how much simpler I can make this for you. It is NOT the federal government’s responsibility to provide “liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. It’s the role of the federal government to protect the citizens inalienable rights to pursue liberty and happiness. The people accomplish that though opportunity and hard work, not through government dictation. Got it?
Newflash, sweetpea: Life isn’t fair. To penalize those who excel is indicative of a mediocre person obsessed with keeping others down to their level. I don’t envy the rich or pity the poor. You talk about “human rights”, yet you think the abolition of the basic right to work and keep most of what you earn is “selfish”. You’re an ass.

Much like anyone who spoke out against the Bush administration were terrorists? Bush has met lots of people from Saudi Arabia. Bin Laden comes from there. Ergo by your argument: BUSH IS A TERRORIST!

Hell, it’s not like the anti-Bush/anti-military/anti-war crowd didn’t make their feelings known:
http://www.laweekly.com/2002-11-07/news/behind-the-placards
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/01/09/anti-war-talent/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/the-marching-morons/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/03/20/pro-terrorist-moonbats-on-parade/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/07/23/anti-war-idiot-spits-on-iraq-war-vet/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/10/13/note-to-frank-rich-heres-your-violent-escalation/
Kucinich, Pelosi, McDermott, all made their trips to Iraq to show support for Saddam Hussein.
Ergo, it’s pretty clear whose side they were on. And they’re proud of it.

How can you see if they are who you think they are unless you give them a fair trial rather than assuming they are guilty. What about the detainees who have been returned back home, after being found not-guilty? Enemy combatants I think not.
“Praising the Islamic enemy responsible for countless atrocities including 9/11, was “speaking truth to power”” – come on. I’ve heard better shit come out of Sarah Palin.
So Bush standing in front of “Mission Accomplished” sign wasn’t an idiotically foolish idea, when after than countless more Allied soldiers died in combat? Again you’re making aspersions and not backing it up with evidence.

Let’s see…they were captured on the battlefield during firefights, and as part of counter-terrorism ops in Al Qaeda and Taliban safehavens. But nah, they’re “innocent” until proven guity. Like Khalid Sheik Mohammad.
Uh huh.
By the way, the “Mission Accomplished” sign that you moonbats love to jump on, was acknowlegment of a successful Navy mission—it was the end of their tour of duty. The success in Iraq is not an “asperation”, it’s a fact.

Actually most of the people the forces are fighting want the troops out of the country. I don’t really think that the Nobel Committee can be called “eurotrash”….

Considering the recent collection of Nobel recipients, including moonbats Jimmy Carter and Al Gore, and Obama..EuroTrash fits.
Germans, Italians, and Japanese were caught in repressive regimes. Do you give a fuck about what we had to do to places like Dresden, Hiroshima, and Salerno? Do you care that at least 2 million people in Germany, and 70,000 in Italy were killed? I sure as hell don’t.
Islamic nation states—all across the Middle East—nurture, train, breed, fund, and indoctrinate jihadists to kill the infidel and commit atrocities for their religious ideology. You Leftards have less of a problem with Islamic terrorism than what it takes to stop them.
Want a critique of your ignorance? The “Bush lied” mantra is hackneyed and patently false.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/06/17/no-lies-about-iraq/

What makes you think the massive influx of new dependents won’t cause that to happen?” because the state benefits will not be enough for people to live off comfortably.

Yeah, gouge the working people and those eeeeeevil capitalist filthy rich so that the welfare class, which will burgeon to fanstatic proportions under the new socialism, can live comfortably. I have a very narrow view of an entitlement culture. The self-appointed “I’m entitled” crowd wants what the evil rich folks have, even though they didn’t earn it. The wealth envy of lazy, unmotivated, able bodied moochers is
astounding. Every developed country has them. It’s the perpetual welfare class that doesn’t work because they don’t have to. They know how to manipulate the system and they pass it to their children like a fucking family heirloom.

The UN is a forum for collective decision making….

Whose decision making? It’s a platform for anti-democracy activists with a visceral hatred of the United States. I’d love to see it kicked out of the country.

A Politics degree teaches you to be analytical. To not take for granted any piece of information, and to question the sources and the motivation behind each actor, so yeah its a pretty real qualification to talk about politics.

My analysis came not just from the training I received, but actual contact and experience.
Your “qualifications” are based solely on classroom instruction; which is only a small part of understanding how geo-political influences function in the world outside your academic bubble.

You dislike “Euros”. You give American’s a bad name. The sheer arrogance you portray in thinking that America should be the global policemen, and that because you shout louder with bigger conspiracies, you automatically win. Why do you hate Euros? I mean, most of Americans descend from us.

Global policemen? Oh, fucking please. I’m all for isolationism. We should stop giving aid and support to countries who expect us to do the heavy lifting when it comes to being a world cop, while jeering from the sidelines. On the other hand, if you attack us, we annihilate you, your country, your supporters and your allies. How’s that? Maybe then we could watch as you Euros pick up the slack because you have so much moral superiority. I can hardly wait. When we gained independence, we cut ties with the British idea of Monarchy and transformed into a Democratic Republic. We’re proud of our ancestry, but modern Europe, not so much.

You know nothing of a totalitarian system. Why is it impossible for you to emit a sentence without it being blown out of all reasonable proportion?

The Soviet Union, Vietnam, and China aren’t good examples of totalitarianism? Scuse me, but I must have blown the brutality, genocide, and damage caused by communsim all out of “reasonable proportion”. Tsk. Tsk.

And to say it has nothing to do with morals?

Yeah, inflicting socialism where there was once freedom is so moral. Creating a country of government dependents where no one can grow—economically and personally—beyond what the government stipulates, is so moral.
Keith Olbermann called. He wants his talking points back.
SFC MAC

flamjew,

Yeah, you’ve got me yawning too. I’ve read every ObamaCare bill put forth by the Democrats.
I’ve read about Obama’s Marxist philosophy, background, friends, mentors, and associates, and I’ve seen the consequences of his “wealth redistribution”, so I’m pretty knowledgeable even without the benefit of Glenn Beck. READ: http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/11/23/obama-and-the-company-he-keeps/

If I get a disease I don’t need to worry that I don’t have the money to pay for it. Can’t you see that that is the simple beauty of the system? I’m not sure of the precise figures, but surely the insurance premiums you have to pay equate to the tax that is paid here?

Where do you think the money for your treatment comes from?? Does Britain simply print more currency? No. Your exhorbitant taxes take care of that. I guess if I were a freeloader, I’d love the “simple beauty” of that system, too. Under socialized medicine, our premiums and taxes will go up to cover the mass influx of new patients forced into it. Just. Beautiful.

Your sense of unearned entitlement is on par with the welfare queens in the U.S.

But alas such analytical reading seems beyond your remit.

My analysis is based on exactly what the bill contains and what Obama said he intends to do. The Canadian and British government-allocated healthcare has proven to be an abject failure. The people are taxed to the extreme to pay for an overburdened healthcare system which struggles to maintain even a modicum of quality. Period. Cognitive reasoning with regard to cost, debt, deficit, and the inefficiency of government-run health care is not your forte.

As for Bush. Seriously….

Don’t make me laugh. Your Obamessiah is an abject failure. He makes Jimmy Carter look ‘presidential’ and up until now, no one believed that was possible.
Looks like you Euros are becoming disenchanted with THE ONE:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/04/17/sarkozy-obamas-overrated/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/03/30/euros-love-affair-with-the-one-is-on-the-rocks/
http://www.washingtontimes.com/news/2010/mar/04/europe-wakes-from-its-obama-dream/
This one by British journalist Simon Heffers is particularly good:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/03/08/simon-heffers-thoughts-on-obamas-descent-and-fox-news-popularity/
Millions of people across America are fed up with Obama, the Dems, and the in-your-face corruption. http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/tea-party-tax-protests-held-nationwide/
That’s a hell of a lot more than a handful, sweetpea.

Democrats have also been big beneficiaries of the defense industry.
http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/article/2009/03/07/AR2009030702216.html
http://www.crewsmostcorrupt.org/node/1951
http://www.truthnews.us/?p=359
And your point is?

Erosion of civil liberties: If you’re bitching about the Patriot Act, that was approved by the Supreme Court, and used successfully to target and capture Islamic terrorists on our soil. Like I told another leftard on here: The NSA isn’t interested in your phone sex.

Obama, on the other hand, has engaged in some of the worst violations of the First Amendment. Ever.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/08/08/dissent-in-the-age-of-the-one/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/04/15/enemies-of-obamas-state/

Speaking of the communications industry:
Obama’s efforts to squelch the First Amendment
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/08/27/obamas-communications-diversity-czar/

Foreign policy: We won in Iraq, no thanks to B. Hussein. That job was accomplished by the United States military under the leadership of President George W. Bush, General David D. McKiernan, General Ray Odierno, and General David Patraeus. Any success from here on out in Afghanistan, will be due to the U.S. military’s continued bravery and dedication under the auspices of General Stanley McCrystal.

Obama is a stupid, dangerous scatterbrain, with no clue how to run a country or a war. The “community organizer” in the White House thinks his socialist ideology and his Dhimmi approach are a good idea.
His patty-cake approach to North Korea, Iran, Russia, and China has made a joke out of our foreign policy. He’s an empty suit with serious character flaws. The current Comander-in-Chief slot, is for all intent and purpose, vacant until 2012.
And he’s so sophisticated when it comes to protocol. Tell me, does Her Royal Majesty enjoy the gift of an iPod full of his own speeches?

But this forms the centre point of any argument towards public goods, that the small price you pay will benefit a greater number of people….

Oh, fucking please. Charity is one thing. Government shake downs to “benefit a greater number of people” is extortion and theft. When you’re finished taxing the already overburdened rich—or for that matter the Middle Class—into poverty, who will be left to gouge? What socialism does is create an entire new class of welfare recipients.
How about a Fair Tax system. Never heard of it?
Here:
The FairTax plan is a comprehensive proposal that replaces all federal income and payroll based taxes with an integrated approach including a progressive national retail sales tax, a prebate to ensure no American pays federal taxes on spending up to the poverty level, dollar-for-dollar federal revenue neutrality, and, through companion legislation, the repeal of the 16th Amendment.

The FairTax Act (HR 25, S 296) is nonpartisan legislation. It abolishes all federal personal and corporate income taxes, gift, estate, capital gains, alternative minimum, Social Security, Medicare, and self-employment taxes and replaces them with one simple, visible, federal retail sales tax administered primarily by existing state sales tax authorities.

The FairTax taxes us only on what we choose to spend on new goods or services, not on what we earn. The FairTax is a fair, efficient, transparent, and intelligent solution to the frustration and inequity of our current tax system.

The FairTax:

Enables workers to keep their entire paychecks
Enables retirees to keep their entire pensions
Refunds in advance the tax on purchases of basic necessities
Allows American products to compete fairly
Brings transparency and accountability to tax policy
Ensures Social Security and Medicare funding
Closes all loopholes and brings fairness to taxation
Abolishes the IRS
http://www.fairtax.org/site/PageServer

Article 25 of the Declaration of Human Rights. Surely there is a moral right….

“Declaration of Human Rights”…you’ve gotta be kidding. That must be a U.N. concoction.
Our Declaration of Independence says nothing about the “right to health care”. Neither does our Constitution. Read it sometime. We have plenty of disabled and elderly people in this country who cannot work. Disability, Social Security, Medicare, and Medicaid benefits are already available. And incidentally, all those programs are going broke because of government spending and waste. While you’re dishing out lectures, maybe you can convince Congress to stop that shit.

It is almost as if you are imbuing the Democrats with having creating the national debt…

Obama’s only been in office 14 months and already he’s surpassed the spending, debt, and deficit levels of previous administrations. The national debt was bad enough, now he’s adding to it by leaps and bounds. Incidentally, the stimulus package (another pile of spending waste) consisting of an 800-billion-dollar-plus price tag consumed more resources than have been laid out for both Iraq and Afghanistan.
You need to read more CBO information:

In 2009, the federal government ran a budget deficit of $1.4 trillion, or 9.9 percent of GDP–the largest budget deficit relative to the size of the U.S. economy since World War II.[2] And the Obama Administration is proposing to add trillions of dollars more in debt over the coming decade. As shown in chart 1, the Administration’s 2010 budget contemplates deficits exceeding $630 billion each and every year through 2019.

……by the end of 2019, the Congressional Budget Office (CBO) projects that the Obama budget plan would push the debt burden above $17 trillion–an increase in the nation’s debt burden of $11.3 trillion over the period 2009-19. (Congressional Budget Office, “An Analysis of the President’s Budgetary Proposals for Fiscal Year 2010,” June 2009)
http://www.cbo.gov/ftpdocs/102xx/doc10296/06-16-AnalysisPresBudget_forWeb.pdf

Obama’s habit of blaming Bush for his own fuck ups won’t work anymore.

Socialised medicine DOES work. I’m living in the country where it is quite evident that it works….

That’s bullshit on stilts. The Euro health care system is rife with inefficiency and a severe decline in quality care. Let’s see: Heart patients dying due to poor hospital care…Dental patients face care lottery…Women in labor turned away by maternity units…British hospitals told to delay surgeries…Record numbers go abroad for health treatment with 70,000 escaping NHS…and spending months on a waiting list, isn’t what one would call a system that “works”.
Until ObamaCare kicks in, we still have the best care in the world. If socialized medicine becomes law, the government’s death panels will be in charge of our life and death decisions. We will have no choice. On top of that, the government will force us to pay for this train wreck. That’s immoral.

Health care reform is needed, but not at the barrel of a government gun.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/message-to-senator-sherrod-brown-d-oh-and-rep-betty-sutton-d-oh/

Whilst on your simply wonderful travels (thanks for letting me know) obviously you never spoke to anyone who actually lives in the country. Travelling doesn’t equal an ethnographic study into the make up of that particular society, so please get some acadmeic funding and carry that one out and if it does support your hypothesis, I will obligingly eat my words.

I was in the United States Army for 30 years. I spent more time outside the United States than I did at home. I’ve been all over the Middle East, Korea, and Europe. Academically, I know more about those particular societies than your woefully scant observations of America.
You want salt with that crow?

As for the self-interest. That makes no sense. Look up self-interest and get back to me. Though “life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness”. The insurance industry takes a huge dump on the first one, eh?

Not as much as the shit Obama just took on our freedoms.
You totally missed the “self-interest” statement. My self interest involves the support of the U.S. Bill of Rights and Constitution. The documents that used to be honored by my government. Now, not so much. READ: http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/12/11/the-democrats-assault-on-america/

When you’ve had a class or two in American civics, get back with me.

SFC MAC

flamjew,

Improve our lives??? What planet are you from? I’ve looked past my own nose, and I know what’s in store:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2010/03/23/america-under-obamacare/

Your proctologist called…he found your head.

SFC MAC