THE ONE’s 60 Minutes Interview

dcjnor,

Uh, no…you will just continue to make a complete fool of yourself and attempt to link more leftwingnut sources and conspiracy authors.

Bush won the 2000 and 2004 elections fairly. I’ve provided countless incontrovertible evidence; you reciprocate with puerile denials accompanied by the allegations of mentally disturbed conspiracy hacks who cannot accept the truth.

There’s only so many ways I can try to explain and show things to a simpleton, but I’ll just keep plugging away.

More links on the 2000 election:

http://www.usatoday.com/news/politics/2001-04-03-floridamain.htm

From the leftwing NEW YORK TIMES, no less: http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/politics/recount/12VOTE.html

And a consortium of newspapers who conducted an investigation, including the New York Times, Washington Post, Los Angeles Times, CNN and AP. It determined that George W. Bush still would have won under either legally possible recount scenario which could have occurred: The Florida Supreme Court ordered recount of undervotes statewide or Gore’s request for a recount in certain counties.

http://www2.norc.org/fl/

And the 2004 election:

Even Jennifer Brunner, the ACORN hack/Ohio Secretary of State, confirmed the 2004 outcome.

A recount showed Bush winning Ohio by 118,599 votes, the Ohio Secretary of State’s Office announced Wednesday.
http://www.fairelections.us/article.php?id=274

More on ACORN and Brunner’s corrupt tactics in the 2008 election.

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/warner-todd-huston/2007/11/06/2-convicted-vote-fraud-ohio-no-mention-theyre-democrats

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2008/10/17/fnc-sees-ohio-s-dem-sec-state-stonewalling-voter-fraud-investigation

http://www.komonews.com/news/8729967.html

ACORN’s Voter Fraud in Ohio is Part of Larger Pattern
http://www.epionline.org/news_detail.cfm?rid=171

Keep it coming, I’ve got lots more to counter your lunacy.

Back to your boy Obama:

Obama is an abject failure at both domestic and foreign policy. He’s destroying my country’s economic base, world financial standing, and national security with his scatterbrained socialism and the contingent of Dem sycophants.

More than half of Americans do not want failed banks to get a bailout. People in this country are fed up with Obama’s tax, spend, and bailout orgy at our expense. The nation-wide “Tea Parties” (another event you ignore) have been increasing and have drawn thousands of protestors against THE ONE’S tyranny.

But, you aren’t paying attention.

Where did he get the legal authority to literally take over an American automaker and force $700 billion worth of Troubled Assets Relief Program (TARP) down the throats of the auto industry? He didn’t even consult his own party:

House Majority Leader Steny Hoyer (D-Md.) told CNSNews.com on Tuesday that he does not know where ….Obama gained legal authority to oversee a restructuring of General Motors and Chrysler. But if authority is a question, he said, then Congress will grant it to the administration.

However, when Congress tried to enact an auto industry bailout plan in December, the legislation was approved by the House but failed in the Senate where, under the rules, it needed 60 votes.

“The administration clearly believes it does have the authority to use some of the remaining TARP funds for the automobile industry,” Hoyer told CNSNews.com Tuesday.
http://www.cnsnews.com/public/content/article.aspx?RsrcID=45922

In other words, he TOOK the authority. More seizure and redistribution of wealth; communism.

Forbes Magazine, an authoritative financial and economic publication has this to say of Obama’s spending spree:

……But all of this is just a pipe dream. Government spending does not cause a net increase in jobs over the long run; it costs jobs. Every dollar the government spends is either taxed or borrowed from the private sector, which means it “crowds out” private sector job creation. And because government spending is less efficient than private sector spending, the economy actually grows more slowly in the long run as the government gets bigger.

……The new massive government spending plans are especially frightening with the U.S. now facing $1 trillion deficits. President Obama says that this is all OK, and that he is cutting the deficit in half (to $533 billion using administration math, or $672 billion according to the CBO) in just four years. What he doesn’t say, and what no one seems willing to say, is that without his new budget the deficit would have been cut by 75% in four years to about $250 billion. The budget deficit and the size of the government are exploding…
http://www.forbes.com/2009/03/30/stimulus-budget-deficit-opinions-columnists-bailout-employment.html

It’s bad enough he’s such an inept jackass when it comes to diplomatic decorum with Euro leaders—the useless DVDs he gave to Gordon Brown and the iPod he gave your Queen full of video footage and photographs of her 2007 United States visit to Virginia—but he’s also absolute dolt on the handling of foreign hostile threats.

If you want more proof of his incompetent, kowtowing stupidity, look no further than his ingratiating statements to the Arabs and his deference to the U.N. over North Korea’s and Iran’s in-your-face ballistic missile tests and nuke programs.

There are terrorist Islamic nation-states going nuclear, North Korea has just conducted a test of a ballistic missile that has the capability of reaching Alaska, Russia is re-arming and showing signs of the old Soviet attitude, and Iran is in the process of enriching weapons grade uranium.

And how does ‘President Punchdrunk’ respond? He walks around in a daze with an idiotic grin, defers the ‘solution’ to the U.N., and plays diplomatic patty-cake with these thugs. He’s a fucking embarassment and basically, a waste of skin. BTW: Communist China is pretty happy over Obama’s nonchalance, as well.

Here’s a quote that personifies the intentions and goals of Islamic extremist nation-states and their relation to the West:

Ridwan Assayed in the pan-Arab al-Sharq al-Awsat said: “Sometimes disasters are necessary to bring about a change… the change I mean is not only economic but also political and strategic… there are now new economic powers… These new powers do not share the opinions of traditional western capitalist states.”
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/business/7980705.stm

Wanna know what the Taliban thinks of Obama’s “reach out, touchy-feely” approach?

Taliban insurgents reject a U.S. offer of “honorable reconciliation,” a top spokesman said on Wednesday, calling it a “lunatic idea” and saying the only way to end the war was to withdraw foreign troops.
http://news.yahoo.com/s/nm/20090401/pl_nm/us_afghanistan_taliban

The message? Give up, Obama. Ignore our Islamic terrorism, pull out American troops, and stop fighting back at our terrorist aggression. He’ll likely do just that.

Luckily, Obama wasn’t ‘in charge’ during WWII. He’d have been so far up Hitler’s ass, he would have been able to taste the sauerkraut he ate.

SFC MAC

dcjnor,

Boy, do you need a clue. I’ve read your sources, and it’s the same run-of-the-mill tripe you’ve been spewing since you first came on here.

The sources I provided also included columnists and economists in the VERY COUNTRIES involved in the discussion. I’ve cited a variety of publications; conservative and liberal. Rolling Stone is not a credible source of reliable journalism. It’s like Mother Jones, only with music critics. It’s leftwing-biased and it always has been.

But, you ignore that.

A top Swedish official, Maud Olofsson, was quoted in the article about SAAB. Again, you ignored it.

As for the dimminishing Euro/Obama love affair, here’s one from your own country.

Your fellow Englanders are growing bored with THE ONE. This Telegraph columnist has Obama’s number.

Isn’t it time for him to go home yet? It is good, in theory, that the new President of the United States is taking so much time to tour Europe. He arrived in London last Tuesday, has been to Strasbourg, Prague yesterday and now he’s off to Turkey. It shows, I suppose, that he cares about the outside world and that is ‘A Good Thing’. But his long stay means that we are hearing rather a lot from him, way too much in fact.

……But Obama was only warming up. “When I was born,” (Everything usually leads back to him, you’ll notice)… “the world was divided, and our nations were faced with very different circumstances. Few people would have predicted that someone like me would one day become an American President.” (Him again)…

“Few people would have predicted that an American President would one day be permitted to speak to an audience like this in Prague. And few would have imagined that the Czech Republic would become a free nation, a member of NATO, and a leader of a united Europe. Those ideas would have been dismissed as dreams”. (Not by Ronald Reagan they wouldn’t have been, when most of Obama’s Democrat friends thought the then US President’s robust approach to the Cold War made him a loony on the loose).

……I’ll wager that within a year or so he’ll be marked down as a wind-bag.
http://blogs.telegraph.co.uk/iain_martin/blog/2009/04/05/barack_obama_really_does_go_on_a_bit

Too late. He already is. Bamster is all mouth, no substance.

I can’t make this any simpler, even for an intellectually challenged person such as you:
Bush won. In 2000 and 2004. He won the popular vote and the electoral college in Florida and Ohio.
The recounts were conducted under bi-partisan observation, and validated by election officials and through independent investigations. The only “historians” who have their panties in a wad over the elections are the ones with a conspiracy ax to grind.

Obsess about something that actually involves a crime.

Like ACORN. And the NY Dems, who are suppressing the rights of the military voters:
http://corner.nationalreview.com/post/?q=NjUwYWJmMTRjNDNlOWYyMTVhNTFiOGFjMWJhYTJkZWQ=abs

Al Gore tried to do the same thing in 2000, with absentee military ballots.

You keep ignoring the facts and keep your head in the sand, dcjnor.

I’ll keep proving you wrong and laughing at your vacuousness.

SFC MAC

dcjnor,

Your looney theories and oblivious mentality deserve all the chiding you’ve received. Nothing less.

Oh, by the way, more proof of Obama’s socialist thugery: There are banks that have been threatened, even though they didn’t “beg” for bailouts, with audits if they didn’t knuckle under the government’s buy-out plan:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/03/19/how-the-government-rewards-common-sense/

and:

….Obama administration is considering asking Congress to give the Treasury secretary unprecedented powers to initiate the seizure of non-bank financial companies, such as large insurers, investment firms and hedge funds, whose collapse would damage the broader economy, according to an administration document.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/03/24/more-hubris-on-the-way/

Obama is a socialist’s wet dream. Europe ought to be elated.

By the way, millions of Americans are not enthused over Euro-style socialism being forced down our throats:

http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/02/26/tea-party-tax-protests-held-nationwide/

Your “dribs and drabs” are some of the most insane tripe I’ve ever read. They’ve been discounted and largely ignored even by the leftwing MSM, which is saying alot. The 200 and 2004 elections were conducted under heavy scrutiny, especially during the recounts. To incessently blab about conspiracies is a sign of a weak, sick mind.

Your “election threft” theories don’t come even remotely close to reality.

Keep trying.

SFC MAC

djcnor,

You’re not just dense, you’re braindead.

I’ve read Rolling Stone, and I’m quite familiar with the type of “journalism” they engage in at the behest of Jan Wenner, who is one of the biggest leftwing meatballs on the planet.

Palast and Kennedy are not credible observers.

In one instance, Palast claims to have spoken with a ‘black’ servicemen who he says was ‘disenfranchised’ and had his ‘vote suppressed’.

The truth:

The problem with this choice of Randall Prausa (the “black” person in question) to illustrate disenfranchisement of African American servicemen by caging is that Randall Prausa is not Black.

……In its own checking on “caging,” ePluribus Media was able to reach Mr. Prausa by email and telephone. Mr. Prausa told us he did previously live at the address listed on the caging list. He also reports that he was deployed overseas and voted by absentee ballot in 2004. Review of the election data we received from the Duval County Election Office confirms that he voted by absentee ballot in 2004 and his ballot was counted. Furthermore, Mr. Prausa claims he has never spoken with Palast. His wife told us she was contacted by the BBC in October 2004, but the question of ethnicity never came up. The Prausas have not been contacted again by the BBC or anyone else about the 2004 election until we contacted them at the end of May 2007. Additionally, we found that of the 50 “soldiers” on the caging list (listing “Naval Air Station” as their address), 43 remained on the Voter Registration roll. Of these, nine are Black, four Hispanic, and twenty-three are white. Nine are registered Democrats (24%) and sixteen are registered Republicans (38%).
http://www.epluribusmedia.org/features/2007/20070704_palast_progressives_journalism.html

And Kennedy, he’s just another member of the clan who wants his 15 minutes of fame through his father’s and uncle’s ‘reputations’. I have more respect for Patrick Kennedy, who is a bona fide lush, and admits he’s privileged. Said Kennedy at a 2003 function: “I have never worked a fucking day in my life.”
Link: http://www.cbsnews.com/stories/2003/06/30/politics/main561032.shtml

Bottom line: there were not enough ‘disputed’ votes to change the outcome of the election.

John Kerry definitely lost the election in 2004, in Ohio too. Only fools doubt that now.

What this all boils down to is a bunch of losers complaining that their opponent got more votes, and what are the chances of that?

The more lame excuses you produce, the deeper the hole you’ve dug for yourself.

The problem with all of the “proof” you’ve cited, is that every single one of them hate the United States, hated George W. Bush, could not accept the fact he won, and went looking for reasons to justify their disbelief. None of them are credible. Take this to heart: To this day they look as foolish as the people who use them as a reference.

AGAIN:

Ohio even conducted a re-count in 2004, and still concluded that George W. Bush won the state.

……The Green and Libertarian Parties asked for the recount and raised $113,600 to help pay for it as required under state law.
The recount, conducted over the past three weeks, showed that Mr. Bush won Ohio by 118,457 votes. Most county elections officials completed their recounts last week, but the state had to wait for Lucas County, where Toledo is located, to complete its tally. Lucas County reported the results of its recount on Tuesday.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/29/politics/29ohio.html

……Unlike the 2000 presidential election, the 2004 contest ended with a clear and undisputed victory for Bush, as he won a majority of the popular vote as well as the electoral college vote.
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/SETUPS/2004.html

You can debate the ‘legitimacy’ of those votes until you’re blue in the face, but the recount was done in a professional, unbiased manner. The ballots were double checked for accuracy and validity.

Want a glaring example of vote tampering? Look at what assclown Al Franken is pulling right now in Minnesota. He’s been producing “discovered” ballots out of thin air and dragging out the vote recount against Norm Coleman for the last five months.

Bush won the Ohio popular vote as well as the electoral college. By 118,457 votes. Period. No amount of leftwingnut denial, propaganda, or contrived ‘statistics’ will change that. Your obsessive, incessant opining is really sad and pathetic, abeit entertaining. Like Freeman.

I dare you to actually read the evidence I’ve provided, yourself. But you won’t because in the fervid minds of conspiracy wackjobs, rags like Rolling Stone carry more weight than credible sources.

The blatant illegal tactics of ACORN in 2008 are well documented. They were registering illegals, homeless, dead people, and fabricated names. But that isn’t as important as projecting riduculous rants at the oucome of an election that didn’t go your way.

Socialism:
so·cial·ism (ssh-lzm)
n.
1. Any of various theories or systems of social organization in which the means of producing and distributing goods is owned collectively or by a centralized government that often plans and controls the economy.
2. The stage in Marxist-Leninist theory intermediate between capitalism and communism, in which collective ownership of the economy under the dictatorship of the proletariat has not yet been successfully achieved.

The above definition describes exactly the type of policy being conducted by Obama. he has forced banks to take TARP funds under threat of auditing. He forced AIG, GM, and several other corporations to take bailout money, thus enabling the government to become part owner in these enterprises, and wield unprecedented power.

Europe has had its own brand of socialism for years. To ignore that, especially since you’re smack in the middle of it, takes a pretty sophisticated set of cerebral blinders.

I’m still waiting to be written under the table. Keep trying.

SFC MAC

djcnor,

Obama’s not a Marxist? Oh really? For someone who claims to be so knowlegeable and informed on candidates and issues, you sure are one of the most CLUELESS liberals I’ve ever encountered.

His mentors included communist Saul Alinksy who authored “Rules for Radicals”, Frank Marshall Davis, (also an avowed communist activist), and William Ayers, a terrorist as well as a communist ideologue. He partnered with ACORN for years and ascribes to their communist philosophy.

He’s already forcing the government takeover of banks and corporations. That’s one of the first steps toward a socialist/communist centralized government. He’s implementing the very methods right under the noses of you liberals, but you refuse to admit it. At best he’s a socialist and at worst a Marxist.

Stuart Varney puts it best:

……The government wants to control the banks, just as it now controls GM and Chrysler, and will surely control the health industry in the not-too-distant future. Keeping them TARP-stuffed is the key to control. And for this intensely political president, mere influence is not enough. The White House wants to tell ’em what to do. Control. Direct. Command.
http://online.wsj.com/article/SB123879833094588163.html

Somewhere, Vladimir Lenin is smiling. Then again, the label fits.

SFC MAC

djcnor,

Okay…I’m going to say this slooooooooowly. Both the article and Freeman’s book came out well after the election: IN 2006.
The article mentions Freeman’s ‘theories’ which he undoubtedly used in his book, as well as spoon-fed to Robert Kennedy Jr.

Obviously, the pollsters in the Salon article are familiar with Freeman’s ‘ideas’, hence the reference to his ‘numbers’.

Your understanding of what they said, must be lower than Freeman’s reputation with the polling experts.

They poll for a living. None of them take a fruitbat like Freeman seriously. And these are people who were in Kerry’s campaign. They blew his theory to hell, as well as his strawman reference to the Ukraine. If you ever go to Vegas, don’t count on Freeman’s advice.

And you might want to acquaint yourself with this bit of Ohio voter fraud pulled by ACORN with regard to registrants and residence:
The Cuyahoga County (Cleveland) Board of Elections is currently investigating 75,000 ACORN registrations, with multiple registrations under the same name, different birth dates, and non-existent addresses……
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/09/26/ohio-secretary-of-state-tries-to-suppress-votes-guess-the-party/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/10/14/bogus-acorn-registered-ohio-voters-caught/

ACORN shipped out-of-state voters into Ohio to vote for Obamessiah.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/10/27/out-of-state-obama-voters-illegally-registered-and-voted-in-ohio/
If you want fraud and conspiracy, that will keep you and Freeman pretty busy. The odds of him admitting just how much fraud occurred on Obama’s behalf are extemely low.

And of course, there were the whiny letters from the requisite “Bush stole the 2000 election” crowd. So? Would you like me to the re-iterate the results of the independent investigations of the Florida count, again?

SFC MAC

dcjnor,

Okay, let me clarify: Zogby debunked accusations like Freeman’s 2 years before he jumped on the bandwagon.

BTW: More on exit polls, by Zogby:

……Exit polls achieved particular infamy in the 2000 U.S. presidential election, when they were misused by the television networks to make not one, but two, incorrect projections of the winner who had been selected by voters in Florida.
……exit polls become problematic when they are used to project a winner. No matter how good the sampling process involved in an exit poll, it is still sampling, which means that there is a margin of sampling error. This matters less if the election is a landslide, but in a close election, a one- or two-point margin of error looms large. Based on the pre-election polling and the exit polls throughout the day in 2000, there was no legitimate way that television networks could have possibly determined whether George W. Bush or Al Gore had won the state of Florida before all the votes were counted. The pressure to get the projection first trumped the pressure to get the projection right.
http://www.zogby.com/search/ReadNews.cfm?ID=925

What Zogby is trying to tell thick-skulled conspiracy theorists, is that it’s not a good idea to rely on exit polls as opposed to the actual outcome of an election. This is because overzealous MSM pundits and those doing the polling are likely to skew the results in favor of their partisan leanings. Like Freeman.

Ohio even conducted a re-count in 2004, and still concluded that George W. Bush won the state.

……The Green and Libertarian Parties asked for the recount and raised $113,600 to help pay for it as required under state law.
The recount, conducted over the past three weeks, showed that Mr. Bush won Ohio by 118,457 votes. Most county elections officials completed their recounts last week, but the state had to wait for Lucas County, where Toledo is located, to complete its tally. Lucas County reported the results of its recount on Tuesday.
http://www.nytimes.com/2004/12/29/politics/29ohio.html

A breakdown, state by state:
http://query.nytimes.com/gst/fullpage.html?res=9B04EED8173CF937A35752C1A9629C8B63

Most Americans know he won fairly and are not convinced by Freeman’s smoke and mirrors:
http://www.angus-reid.com/polls/view/bush_won_fairly_but_americans_divided/

Unlike the 2000 presidential election, the 2004 contest ended with a clear and undisputed victory for Bush, as he won a majority of the popular vote as well as the electoral college vote.
http://www.icpsr.umich.edu/SETUPS/2004.html

The trouble with Freeman and other conspiracy buffs is that they give a good deal of innuendos, sketchy accusations, and devious plots by someone or some group—although it’s never clearly defined. What’s missing is documentation, good journalism, and hard core evidence.
Freeman props up his animosity over Bush with detailed, albeit contrived “statistics”.
So far, all you’ve offered is a book written by an anti-Bush statistician who crunched numbers to favor his views, and a bunch of citations by leftwingnut ‘troofers’ who blame George W. Bush for everything from AIDs to their erectile dysfunction. It would be comical if it weren’t so downright pathetic. Statistically, the chances of anyone proving a false premise as fact are nil.

As for the “hardly a key player in an orgainzation that started when Obama was still a child.”….I was 13 when ACORN was founded and William Ayers and his Weather Underground comrades blew up people and buildings in the name of “revolution”. Once you become old enough to read and understand the backgrounds and history of groups you associate with, you should know better. Nice try. Fail.

ACORN is a corrupt organization that has committed voter fraud on an enormous scale. Hence, the FBI investigation.

Freeman’s ‘reputation’ is not enhanced by writing a book full of “statistical” conjectures.

But you go right on ahead and keep believing crackpots like Freeman, if it makes you feel better.

SFC MAC

dcjnor,

All you have to go on is the paranoid fantasies of the “troofer” brigade fueled by people like Freeman who try to bolster their ‘credibility’ through convoluted ‘statistics’. No matter what the facts, there will always be a segment of the population who think there’s a conspiracy boogie man hiding behind everything they don’t like. They cannot accept the fact that George Bush won the presidency, (twice) so they comfort their derangement through all kinds of wild-assed ‘plausibilities’. So stick with the facts; if you can find any, that is.
Funny you should mention exit polls. Much of what you assume has been debunked.
Here’s an article by Zogby, one of the most credible and reliable pollsters on the planet:

Faulty exit polls puzzle experts, feed conspiracy theories
Just after noon on Election Day, exit poll numbers leaked widely on the Internet raised hopes in the Democratic campaign that Sen. John Kerry would be moving into the White House. Three weeks later, those faulty findings remain a mystery.

The consortium of news organizations that sponsored the huge voter survey can’t say exactly what went wrong. The pollsters themselves pin much of the blame on a misunderstanding of the early numbers and even wishful thinking by some who leaked them.

An internal investigation is expected to be completed in about a month and delivered to the the major TV networks and the Associated Press, which make up the consortium. Highlighting their concern, the news media group last week agreed that, on future election days, their exit pollster will not provide them with data until after 4 p.m.

The erroneous results are keeping the Internet abuzz with suggestions that something was awry in the Nov. 2 presidential election.

Theorists on the left have alleged that the variation between early exit polls and the election result means that the vote count itself must be wrong. Internet postings from the right counter that the exit polls were designed with a pro-Kerry tilt and then publicized in a deliberate attempt to discourage President Bush’s supporters from going to the polls.

Even as those overseeing the poll brush off such dark suppositions, they are struggling to explain why exit polls showed Kerry with a three percentage point lead late on a day in which the president won by more than 3.5 million votes.

“You used to be about to go to the bank at 1:30 p.m. with the first round of exit polls,” said John Zogby of Zogby International, a polling firm that was not involved in the exit surveys. He said the findings were easy to interpret and “in the final analysis, the numbers didn’t change all that much.”

This year, however, Zogby said, the early numbers seemed out of whack, with reports that Kerry had a 20 point lead in Pennsylvania, a state that he won by 1 percent.

At the Associated Press, the voter polls lost credibility early in the day after they listed pro-Bush states such as Mississippi and Montana in the too-close-to-call category. As a result, the AP waited for actual vote results before calling close races.

Joe Lenski, executive vice president of Edison Media Research and one of the directors of the exit polls, conceded that the surveys, which aimed at questioning every 10th voter leaving 1,480 precincts nationwide, had missed the mark.

“A superficial reading of the data would have indicated that Kerry had a slight lead,” he said in a telephone interview. But he defended the survey’s final result, calling it “well within the sampling error,” which ranged between 2 and 5 percentage points.

“I’ve been doing exit polling since 1987,” he said. “I know the margin of error. The differences we saw in just about every state fell within those calculated errors.”

Comparing polling projections to the work of a hurricane forecaster plotting a wide area for potential landfall, he said some of the leakers had selectively released the data on Web sites.

“A lot of times, people with some sort of interest may take the estimate that looks best to them and just not report the other dozen or so estimates,” Lenski said.

Moreover, Lenski said that some of the numbers posted on the Internet on Election Day were just plain wrong.

The news media consortium, known as the National Election Pool, that hired Lenski and veteran exit pollster Warren Mitofsky has asked for a more conclusive explanation for the glitches in the exit polls, however.

“In 2000, except for Florida, they were actually pretty good,” said Kathleen Frankovic, director of surveys at CBS News and a spokeswoman for the news consortium. This year the projections were “more different from the actual results than one would like to see.”

Exit surveys, by their nature, always vary somewhat from the actual vote count. In recent years, they have tended to over-estimate the support for Democratic presidential candidates.

Writing for the Century Foundation, a liberal policy group, Ruy Teixeira tracked past preliminary exit poll numbers and found the Republican vote to be consistently under-estimated before the data were adjusted to reflect actual vote results. In 1988, for example, initial findings showed Democratic candidate Michael Dukakis with 50.3 percent of the vote, although George H.W. Bush won the election.

The difference this year was that the Internet made it easier for the world to see the unadjusted numbers in an election that was already very close and in a survey that was, apparently, even more skewed toward Democrats.

Frankovic, who has been working with surveys at CBS since the late 1970s, said the internal probe is examining why.

Among the possible factors is the increasing practice of absentee and early voting, which are more difficult to track. The pollsters tried to compensate by conducting pre-Election Day surveys of absentee voters.

Another issue is why some of the early results had an over-representation of women, who tended to favor Kerry over Bush.

“There’s also an issue of whether Democrats were more willing to talk than Bush voters,” Frankovic said. She added that experience shows that older voters are generally less willing to participate in exit polls than younger people.

Other unknown factors are the interviewers, since experience shows some are far more successful at coaxing voters to answer the survey than others.

“Polls are pretty blunt instruments,” Frankovic said. “They are not as precise as I think some people would like to think.”

Although some of the mystery surrounding the polling may be cleared up in the next few weeks, the news media probe may not satisfy everyone or end the speculation.

Zogby said that what’s needed is an independent commission to study both the exit polls and vote counting procedures, which have also come under fire.

“At the very least, it’s a healing thing to try to find out what, if anything, went wrong,” said Zogby, who has been eating his own share of crow, since he predicted that Kerry would pull out a victory in the last hours, despite his own pre-election polling that showed Bush was ahead.

(11/23/2004)

http://www.zogby.com/templates/printsb.cfm?id=10454

Freeman should have called Zogby first.

You have yet to submit anything of merit that would convince a logical person that GW “stole” the elections.

Freeman may be an “expert” in your mind, but not in that of Zogby’s or most other sensible people.
I’m sure Loose Change and Truth Out would welcome your “insight”.

SFC MAC

djcnor, (aka “killer math skills”)

The whole problem with Freeman’s theory; it’s based on nothing more than an unproven statistic reflecting his own bias. Based on all the hyperbole and liberal support for Kerry, he figures that why, there’s just no way George Bush should have won that election. And come hell or Michael Moore, he’s gonna sting together a set of astronomical numbers to “prove” it. All it shows is that Freeman is good at crunching numbers, and not so much at convincing. When he comes up with a “Deep Throat”, let me know.

Did you get the 62,028,285? (heh)

PS: The “proportionate” was in reference to Denmark.

SFC MAC

djcnor,

Obviously, the concept of “proportionate” escapes you.

SFC MAC

djcnor,
No, they weren’t. They were a response to the same run-of-the-mill conspiracy crap you’ve posted on here. Stephen Freeman, according to some of the reviewers on Amazon, could not prove his theory. He simply bolstered it with smoke and mirrors.

I’ve read allot of opinions from people consumed with Bush-is-evil conspiracy theories since 2000. Everything from “election rigging” to the “troofers” claims that he brought down the World Trade Center all by himself.

Again, it would take a concerted effort on the part of a very large number of people to pull off what George Bush has been falsely accused of.
He would’ve had to have an army of software engineers, Diebold technicians, and election officials numbering in the thousands. And all of them would have to remain silent about the entire plot.

You know what djcnor? You’re just as fruity as those people on sites like Truth Out and Loose Change.

And just as entertaining.

Remember the saying: “There’s lies, damned lies, and statistics”? That’s Freeman and your analogies in a nutshell.

SFC MAC

djcnor,

Compare the relative size of the United States to Denmark. Proportionately, they have quite a bit of crime, overtaxation, welfare, and economic problems for their size and utopian sociaist policies.

But still, it’s a welfare leech’s paradise.

SFC MAC

djcnor,

From Denmark’s Shaky Welfare State:

The number of violent crimes in 1960 was approximately 2,000; it is approximately 15,000 today — an increase of more than 700 percent, and it is still rising steeply.
This is a very surprising development, says Hansen, since welfare state advocates often say that crime is caused by poverty. But Denmark has become about twice as rich per citizen during this period of rising crime.
http://www.ncpa.org/sub/dpd/index.php?Article_ID=4785

Wow…so much for crime being cured by the socialist ideal of equal distribution of wealth.

As for the blissful lazyness of Danes, and who wrote it, you forgot to read the part about Danish citizens being interviewed:

Unidentified Danish man: “I broke my leg and I can, I can’t go to work, but I can walk up tomorrow and get a bundle of cash in my hand from the state to help me out. I’m pretty spoiled.”
Hasan also talked to a Danish woman and seemed to approve of her theory that joy comes from not trying very hard, rather then setting rigorous goals for oneself:
Hasan: “Add to that a natural modesty amongst the Danish people, 32 year-old single mom Steina (sp?) tells us its one reason that makes the country great.”
Steina (No last name given): “I don’t put dreams totally up there so I can’t reach them.”

Yep, those hard-working industrious Danes…the ones who foot the bill for the slugs, that is.

And the increase in organized crime, human trafficking and slavery, as well as at least 200 Danes losing their jobs every day, a cost of living that is ranked 15 places above that of NEW YORK CITY….Proportionally, that’s a shitload of problems for such a small country.
Something’s rotten in Denmark.

Hahahahahahahahahahahahaha! Sometimes I crack myself up.

SFC MAC

dcjnor,

Uh, no my dear. That’s a snowball’s chance in hell that it was actually manipulated.

Nice try.

You must be running out of hackneyed excuses. You’re down to one-sentence ‘retorts’.

SFC MAC

djcnor,
I’ll do ya one better: There’s a snowball’s chance in hell.

SFC MAC

djcnor,

Let’s put it this way, the chances that George Bush could have somehow manipulated 3,000,176 votes in his favor is even more miniscule, DNA analogies aside.
“whatreallyhappened” ???? Oh, please. Don’t make me laugh. It’s a website well known for its moonbat conspiracy theories. They even think the JEWS had something to do with 9/11. http://whatreallyhappened.com/WRHARTICLES/9-11BasicQuestions.html
Come up with a better source. That one is lame.

You frothing lefties get no respect when all you do is whine and scream “we were cheated” every time you lose an election.
There are always irregularities and problems in every election. Machine malfunctions, illiterate voters who cannot tell which arrow points to which candidate’s name, and illegitimate voters such as illegal aliens, people shipped in from other states to register and vote, those with no valid residence, etc.
The system isn’t perfect. But by and large, it works.
Aside from all the patently false bullshit about Bush “stealing elections” and “manipulating”: The 2000 vote count was brought to a halt by the Supreme Court so that this country would be spared further embarrassment by Gore’s puerile tantrum. Florida, the swing state in question during that election, had already swung towards Bush’s advantage anyway. When the final votes were counted during investigations by private organizations and even leftwing newspapers, they concluded that Bush did indeed win Florida. Period.

In 2004, the popular vote was even more in Bush’s favor. He won my (swing) state of Ohio by 136,483 votes. And considering the anger over the Eurotrash letter, it was a no-brainer that the vote would lean toward Bush. No ‘hanging chads’ this time; just a clear cut margin of victory.
Take a good look at this map: http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/electoral.college/
See all that red? Those states went to Bush. Period.

You want real vote controversy? ACORN’s crimes in the state of Ohio in 2008 were rampant. Our Secretary of State, an Obama lackey by the name of Jennifer Brunner, was ass deep in the corruption.
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/10/12/bogus-registrations-not-a-problem/
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/10/23/stealing-ohio-the-democrat-way/
This past election is a virtual cavalcade of manipulation by ACORN and Obama-friendly state officials.
Allot of manipulation was done by liberal-media “exit polls”.
http://www.renewamerica.us/columns/wambough/050107
All things considered, you need to save your lectures and admonishment for all of the Democratic crooks who have their own corner on the “vote manipulation” market.

SFC MAC

dcjnor,

As for quantity vs quality: short, hackneyed statements in the name of brevity, still don’t carry weight. I refute every single claim of yours, point by point. Dissecting your nonsense, bit by bit. I make it as succinct and factual as possible.
And you revert to analogies. You’re a real debater. Heh.

“Male”…uh, no sweetpea. If you bothered to read the “about me and this blog” section, you’d know that I’m female. Although research and at least trying to get your facts straight aren’t your strong suit, I can forgive the assumption, because I once referred to you as “Mr.”

You blame the U.S. for “giving Saddam” WMD materials, yet DENY that any were ever found. And up until the time I showed you the 2005 article in question, you were of the opinion that he hadn’t had any in a long time. Not true. He continued to manufacture more weapons on his own. He had the facilities, the materials, and the personnel to do it. Once again, I proved your “opinion” false and as well as the opinions of other leftwing pundits who mistakenly thought the same thing.

I did not cite “wiki” per se. I cited blogs and websites that DIRECTLY REFUTE wiki’s bias. Read the URLs again.

When the CIA took the time to visit the sites where the looting took place, it was one of those “UH OH” moments.

What kills me about you lefties is you either deny he had WMDs, deny any were ever found, or even more pathetic, blame us for “letting them slip away”: http://www.dailykos.com/story/2004/8/14/14127/3546
You just can’t seem to make up your minds.

I read your “sources” as well, and countered with numerous sources (both government and civilian) that directly contradicted them. The people that packed up the discovered WMD materials for shipment, those on the receiving end who destroyed them, and those who stayed behind to clean up the toxic residue, were HAZMAT experts and chem/bio engineers. They are scientists, and it takes a considerable amount of scientific knowledge to perform their jobs. And, it doesn’t take a scientist to figure that out.

I submitted several sources that dismiss your theory of radical Islam (a redundant phrase) and its practitioners as being ‘peaceful people’ who only want to ‘live in peace’. Their philosophy, religious doctrine, and anti-Western hatred belie that statement.
I’ve seen them try to explain “jihad” as an “internal struggle”. The problem with that is it’s usually externalized in the form of beheadings, bombings, and calls for death to the infidel.
Tell you what, you assemble as many “peace-loving” muslim friends as you can muster, (probably as many as you can count on one hand) and you march on down to Anjem Choudary’s mosque and tell him to quit the jihad shit. I bet you don’t make it out of the mosque.

Are you still spouting the statistical nonsense about DNA? You have yet to prove the correlation between DNA statistics and what you perceive as “manipulation of the 2004 election”
Why don’t you use numbers that actually have something to do with the conversation? Like this citation which explains the fact that Bush won both the POPULAR vote and Electoral college. Period.

Bush: Popular vote: 62, 028, 285 Percentage: 50.7% Electoral College: 286
Kerry: Popular vote: 59, 028, 109 Percentage: 48.3% Electoral College: 251
http://www.infoplease.com/ipa/A0922901.html
You’ll notice it’s not even wiki, to boot.

Manipulations…. like the popular vote?
And speaking of manipulations, your illustrious Guardian newspaper tried a stunt during the 2004 election with some good folks in my home state of Ohio. They tried their hand at influencing the 2004 election in Ohio due to the fact it was a ‘swing state’.
An example of Eurotrash arrogance: http://blogs.guardian.co.uk/news/archives/feedback/2004/10/what_were_you_thinking.html
http://guardian.assets.digivault.co.uk/clark_county/

And the response of Americans:
http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/oct/18/uselections2004.usa2

The “world” (Euro) that disrespected Bush could not accept the truth anymore than you, and while we did the majority of the fighting against the Islamofascists, they jeered from the sidelines.
For that, they get no respect from us, either.

I live both inside and outside of my family. Do you live outside of your dream bubble?

Denmark is a heavily taxed welfare state. If I were a lazy, shiftless, non-working Dane I’d be in paradise, I’m sure. The way we put it here in America is: “Work harder. Millions of welfare recipients depend on you.”

Obama’s poll numbers are dropping substantially because of his dopey policies and inability to cope with the job. The guy is a complete dud. More on Obama’s economic train wreck: http://blog.heritage.org/2009/03/24/bush-deficit-vs-obama-deficit-in-pictures/

And it looks like your fellow Euros are losing their adoration for the ‘Bamster’:

http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/03/25/president-punchdrunks-euro-popularity-is-slipping/

Jimmy Carter has respect in certain circles…like Venezuela, Cuba, Iran, and in the Gaza strip with Hamas.
Most people in the U.S. shake their heads every time this assclown tries his own brand of ‘diplomacy’, which usually takes the form of violating the Logan Act and Section 3, Article III of the U.S. Constitution.
Would you like me to show you instances?

I “have been notified”….ooooooooh you’re a scary little muslim sympathizer. Tell you what, sweetpea, for every single “reference” you cite, I will give you 10. There’s so much to counter you with, since muslims commit acts of violence in the name of their religion every day of the week. Believe me, there’s no shortage of the little bastards or their murderous deeds.

You keep chasing your tail.

SFC MAC

djcnor

No. You make claims and ‘back them up’ with vapid opinions, not facts. DNA statistics and obstetricians have nothing whatsoever to do with this discussion. Analogies are all you have in lieu of a concrete argument. You have an autistic-like fixation. Repeating yourself, using the same incessant babble is not a substitute for a persuasive argument.

It makes you look VERY foolish.

The election in 2000 and 2004 was legitimate, and all of the moonbat conspiracy theories will not change that. If you want some real controversy, look no further than Al Gore. He tried to invalidate thousands of military absentee votes (mine among them; I was overseas at the time), because he knew they would likely favor Bush.

The New York Times, not known for being pro-Bush or pro-American, confirmed that George W. Bush won the vote count and the Electoral College in 2000.

A comprehensive review of the uncounted Florida ballots from last year’s presidential election reveals that George W. Bush would have won even if the United States Supreme Court had allowed the statewide manual recount of the votes that the Florida Supreme Court had ordered to go forward.
Contrary to what many partisans of former Vice President Al Gore have charged, the United States Supreme Court did not award an election to Mr. Bush that otherwise would have been won by Mr. Gore. A close examination of the ballots found that Mr. Bush would have retained a slender margin over Mr. Gore if the Florida court’s order to recount more than 43,000 ballots had not been reversed by the United States Supreme Court.
http://www.nytimes.com/2001/11/12/us/examining-vote-overview-study-disputed-florida-ballots-finds-justices-did-not.html

The gorebots can scream all they want. Facts are facts.

As for the 2004 election, it was even more clear cut in Bush’s favor:
http://www.cnn.com/ELECTION/2004/pages/results/president/
After the count was finished, Bush received 286 electoral votes to Kerry’s 251.

As a matter of fact, as early as October of 2004, CNN also not known for its love of George Bush or America stated this:

If the election were held today, Bush likely would win 301 electoral votes to Kerry’s 237, according to a new CNN survey based on state polling as well as interviews with campaign aides and independent analysts. A candidate wins the election with at least 270 electoral votes, regardless of the popular vote.
Bush already had a lead in the Electoral College over Kerry.

http://www.cnn.com/2004/ALLPOLITICS/10/08/electoral.map/index.html

When the Democrats come out on the losing end they always scream foul.

Do I think Obama stole the 2008 election? Not quite, but there was enough blatant widespread voter fraud by ACORN to draw attention to groups and individuals who certainly did their part to try. There are volumes of documented illegal activities to warrant the FBI investigation now underway.

Wikipedia is about as “authoritative” as you are. This is to say, not much.

Read (because I know you did not bother to the first time) the time lapse between Dave Gaubatz’ discovery, the looting, and when the CIA finally showed up. No wonder they didn’t those particular WMDs. THEY HAD BEEN LOOTED. But you weren’t astute enough to pick up on that. That means, and I will make this as simple as I can for you, that although some were already found (the yellowcake, 1.77 tons of enriched uranium, and 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons agents) some were gone by the time the CIA finally got around to arriving at the sites. They saw evidence of what had been WMD storage and the looting. Those are facts, not opinions.

Stem cell research does not qualify you in the field of Intelligence, enemy doctrine, or tactical and strategic analysis. Nor has it enabled you to tell the difference between the truth and what passes for “facts” on wiki. Wiki plays fast and loose with the facts.

Wiki has become nothing more than a leftwing revisionist forum. More often than not, disputes over their information are settled by left-leaning members of their staff, who delete citations and facts in favor of those that suit their agenda.
Their bias has generated a good deal of outrage and discussion:
http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/wiki-whacked-by-political-bias/
http://newsbusters.org/node/10615
http://blog.valuewiki.com/2007/03/02/wikipedia-statistics-suggest-strong-liberal-bias/
I never cite wiki. It’s a joke.

You may have ‘looked’ but you did not read. Wiki doesn’t agree with anything that refutes their liberal stance and the CIA article (again) was written before they acknowledged the looting of WMD. The CIA has never disputed the discovery of 1.77 tons of enriched uranium which was taken from a former nuclear research facility…after being packaged by 20 experts from the US Energy Department’s secret laboratories.

In 2005, U.S. troops in Mosul discovered 1,500 gallons of chemical weapons when they raided a storage facility. You gonna call them liars, too?

The proliferation of WMDs happened during and after Saddam’s rule. That’s because the hidden materials, labs, and facilities were already in place and had not yet been discovered.

I don’t know how much more simple I can make that for such an “educated” person…in the name of quality, of course.

“No Muslim society is rife with extremists, not a single one. The vast majority in all countries are not that involved in whatever religion is the major one. And of those who are religious, the majority simply use it to guide their personal lives, not their politics.”

You are certifiably dense. That is proof positive.
Where are the so-called “peaceful muslims” in opposition to the muslim majority of violent jihadists who use the violent precepts in their religion as a doctrinal tool for terrorism?
They burn synagogues: http://lashawnbarber.com/archives/2005/09/13/muslims/

They commit atrocities in the name of Islam around the world: http://www.thereligionofpeace.com/

Yet, no opposition from the so-called “peaceful muslims”. Face it, if they actually used it to “guide their personal lives, not their politics”, there would be no war between Islam and the West.

A good article on the pervasive extremism in Islam:

Radical Islam has made tremendous inroads into the hearts and minds of Arabic-speaking Muslims. In the socio-cultural realm, militant Islamic discourse maintains hegemony in the public debate among Arabs, replacing Pan-Arabism and Marxism.
http://www.biu.ac.il/SOC/besa/meria/journal/1998/issue2/jv2n2a2.html

The bombing of Japan was “questionably justified? You know as much about WWII as you do the Islamic threat. Japan was ready to fight to every last man, woman, and child. Emperor Hirohito was a “god”. We spared at least another million troops from invading Japan, and the cost of more American lives.
We also destroyed Germany and did things like firebombing Dresden to pieces.
We cut a swath through Italy, too. The point I’m making is enemies and their allies have to be defeated.

A “freedom rider professor”….another BS analogy. Alright, I’ll play along. Comparing Black American citizens civil rights to our fight against a foreign-based Islamic ideology and aggression. No comparison.

For decades, in spite of the increasing attacks and vitriol, we did not perceive Islam as a threat.
9/11 changed all that. The Islamists did exactly what the promised they would do. And there’s more on the way. The least we can do is acknowledge the threat, take it seriously, and fight it wherever it raises its ugly head. Even if liberals don’t want to.

I’m not exactly alone. The Soldiers still serving in Iraq and Afghanistan are continuing to do the same mission I did when I was over there; kicking ass and being Islamofascists’ worst nightmare.
I speak with fellow veterans all the time, and they feel the same. Good luck trying to convince us GWOT veterans all about the “peaceful religion of Islam”. We’ve seen the results.

Iraq and Afghanistan are just two battlefields in the war with Islam. Islamic extremism not only exists among the Middle Eastern populace, but in the governments as well. Saudi Arabia, Iran, Syria, all over.
If the Middle East is so accommodating to Christians and Jews, how come the Islamists target them for destruction? If the Middle East is such a wonderful place, why all the muslim immigrants in Europe?

Allot of them are there to spread the violent gospel according to Mohammad, and “introduce Sharia Law” to Britain:

Europe has become an incubator for Islamist thought and political development. Since the early 1960s, Muslim Brotherhood members and sympathizers have moved to Europe and slowly but steadily established a wide and well-organized network of mosques, charities, and Islamic organizations. Unlike the larger Islamic community, the Muslim Brotherhood’s ultimate goal may not be simply “to help Muslims be the best citizens they can be,” but rather to extend Islamic law throughout Europe and the United States.
http://www.meforum.org/687/the-muslim-brotherhoods-conquest-of-europe

As for “Christians on the warpath in the last century”: If you’re referring to Hitler, he wasn’t Christian, he was atheist. The Nazi state was the religion. He used references to “god” in order to bolster the Nazi Party, which was for all intent and purpose, the “god”.

Bush earned his degrees because of his abilities. He could not have graduated had he failed.

The ‘Bamster’ in spite of what you assume about his IQ and graduation class standing, has turned out to be a dud, and his first 100 days aren’t even up.

Bill Ayers is a “distinguished” unrepentant terrorist radical and academic propagandist:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/03/20/terrorist-bill-ayers-relies-on-police-protection/

Even the Democrats are concerned with THE ONE’s abysmal economic plans. The following link is to HuffPo, a leftwing site chock full of contributors and posters who worship Obama.
http://www.huffingtonpost.com/hale-stewart/obamas-economic-plan-is-_b_86593.html

Your talking points are hackneyed.

Denmark also taxes their working people to death in order to support the part of the population that doesn’t. That’s a welfare state, not ‘economic freedom’.
The European version of socialism works just fine….for those who off suck the teat of the public dole, for sure.

The present state of the economy is being made worse by a socialist who believes he can tax/spend and bailout our way to prosperity. In free market capitalism, it doesn’t work that way.

Obama’s poll numbers are diving. And his “press conference” last night did not help. He avoids hard questions, tap-dances around issues, and shows immature anger when criticized or questioned about his motives and policies. He’s in way over his head, and even his most ardent supporters are starting to doubt their Messiah. He’s looking like a dolt.

Jimmy Carter has “respect” among the Palestinians (Hamas who want Jewish people dead, including you), Hugo Chavez, Fidel Castro, and a host of other despots. The company he keeps sure does appreciate him.

US immigration law applies to everyone, regardless of the country of origin. My ancestors, (the one’s who arrived on boats) came through Ellis Island, became LEGAL citizens, and assimilated into the culture. South of the border illegals do not. Your belief that illegal entrance makes for good citizenship is just as inane as it can be. We have federal statutes that describe, in detail, the penalties for illegal entrance as well as for harboring, aiding, abetting, and hiring illegals. It’s Title 8 of the U.S. Code, sections 1324 and 1325. You ought to read it before you spout nonsense about what constitutes “virtue”.

Read about something other than stem cell research, and babies.

I’m still waiting to be written under the table…with facts for a change.

SFC MAC

djnor,

If your experience were as “broad” as you claim, you wouldn’t resort to analogies involving babies and DNA. Your ideas never vary. It’s the same incessant mantra fof you ‘having more experience’ and your opinions being ‘more authoritative’. From what I’ve seen so far, neither is true.

Wikipedia? Are you kidding? Is that the best you can come up with? Who needs to make fun of wikipedia, when its ridiculous propaganda is self-evident?

If you’re as educated as you claim, you will avoid using Wikipedia for anything other than entertainment value. Wikipedia is an internet joke. It’s operated by a couple of leftists who only allow “facts” to be adjusted as they see fit. The problem is, they, like you, are impervious to the truth about WMDs being discovered, and you won’t find much that contradicts their opinions.

The articles I provided ARE conclusive. If you bothered to actually read the citations I provided, you would know the type of material, the location, the amount, and how it was disposed of. Now how can any of that not be conclusive? Saddam Hussein’s duplicitous behavior clearly indicated his intent to continue with his WMD program. That is a fact. Saddam himself stated that unequivocally:

“The factories are present,” an Iraqi aide tells Saddam on one of the tapes, made by the dictator in the mid-1990s while U.N. weapons inspectors were searching for Baghdad’s remaining stocks of weapons of mass destruction.
“The factories remain, in the mind they remain. Our spirit is with us, based solely on the time period,” the aide says, according to the documents. “And [inspectors] take note of the time period, they can’t account for our will.”
http://www.washingtontimes.com/national/20060313-123146-7380r.htm

Some background on Wikipedia’s methods of altering facts, bias, and censorship:
http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/03/10/wiki-censorship-of-obamas-critics/
http://network.nationalpost.com/np/blogs/fpcomment/archive/2008/4/12/wikipedia-s-zealots-solomon.aspx
http://www.conservapedia.com/Bias_in_Wikipedia
http://wikipediabias.com/

Once in awhile, they do forget to make things ‘disappear’:

……On July 2008, 550 metric tonnes of “yellowcake” the last major remnant of Saddam Hussein’s nuclear program, a huge stockpile of concentrated natural uranium, arrived in Montreal as part of a top-secret U.S. operation. This transport of the seed material for higher-grade nuclear enrichment, included a two-week airlift from Baghdad and a voyage across two oceans. The Iraqi government sold the yellowcake to a Canadian uranium producer, Cameco Corp., in a transaction the official described as worth “tens of millions of dollars.”
http://www.cbc.ca/world/story/2008/07/05/saddam-uranium.html

In a January 26, 2004 interview with Tom Brokaw of NBC news, Mr. (David) Kay described Iraq’s nuclear, chemical, and biological weapons programs as being in a “rudimentary” stage. He also stated that “What we did find, and as others are investigating it, we found a lot of terrorist groups and individuals that passed through Iraq.”[83] In responding to a question by Mr. Brokaw as to whether Iraq was a “gathering threat” as President Bush had asserted before the invasion, Mr. Kay answered:
Tom, an imminent threat is a political judgment. It’s not a technical judgment. I think Baghdad was actually becoming more dangerous in the last two years than even we realized. Saddam was not controlling the society any longer. In the marketplace of terrorism and of WMD, Iraq well could have been that supplier if the war had not intervened.
……In June 2004, the United States removed 2 tons of low-enriched uranium from Iraq. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/WMD_in_Iraq

Oh yeah, here’s another piece of information you’ll never find on wikipedia:
It’s quite long, and I know you’ll never read it, so here are some highlights and the link:

It’s a fair bet that you have never heard of a guy called Dave Gaubatz. It’s also a fair bet that you think the hunt for weapons of mass destruction in Iraq has found absolutely nothing, nada, zilch; and that therefore there never were any WMD programmes in Saddam’s Iraq to justify the war ostensibly waged to protect the world from Saddam’s use of nuclear, biological or chemical weapons.

Dave Gaubatz, however, says that you could not be more wrong. Saddam’s WMD did exist. He should know, because he found the sites where he is certain they were stored. And the reason you don’t know about this is that the American administration failed to act on his information, ‘lost’ his classified reports and is now doing everything it can to prevent disclosure of the terrible fact that, through its own incompetence, it allowed Saddam’s WMD to end up in the hands of the very terrorist states against whom it is so controversially at war.

……Having served for 12 years as an agent in the US Air Force’s Office of Special Investigations, Mr Gaubatz, a trained Arabic speaker, was hand-picked for postings in 2003, first in Saudi Arabia and then in Nasariyah in Iraq. His mission was to locate suspect WMD sites, discover threats against US forces in the area and find Saddam loyalists, and then send such intelligence to the Iraq Survey Group and other agencies.

Between March and July 2003, he says, he was taken to four sites in southern Iraq — two within Nasariyah, one 20 miles south and one near Basra — which, he was told by numerous Iraqi sources, contained biological and chemical weapons, material for a nuclear programme and UN-proscribed missiles. He was, he says, in no doubt whatever that this was true.
This was, in the first place, because of the massive size of these sites and the extreme lengths to which the Iraqis had gone to conceal them. Three of them were bunkers buried 20 to 30 feet beneath the Euphrates. They had been constructed through building dams which were removed after the huge subterranean vaults had been excavated so that these were concealed beneath the river bed. The bunker walls were made of reinforced concrete five feet thick.

…… ‘They explained in detail why WMDs were in these areas and asked the US to remove them,’ says Mr Gaubatz. ‘Much of this material had been buried in the concrete bunkers and in the sewage pipe system. There were also missile imprints in the area and signs of chemical activity — gas masks, decontamination kits, atropine needles. The Iraqis and my team had no doubt at all that WMDs were hidden there.’

There was yet another significant piece of circumstantial corroboration. The medical records of Mr Gaubatz and his team showed that at these sites they had been exposed to high levels of radiation.

Mr Gaubatz verbally told the Iraq Study Group (ISG) of his findings, and asked them to come with heavy equipment to breach the concrete of the bunkers and uncover their sealed contents. But to his consternation, the ISG told him they didn’t have the manpower or equipment to do it and that it would be ‘unsafe’ to try.

‘The problem was that the ISG were concentrating their efforts in looking for WMD in northern Iraq and this was in the south,’ says Mr Gaubatz. ‘They were just swept up by reports of WMD in so many different locations. But we told them that if they didn’t excavate these sites, others would.’

That, he says, is precisely what happened. He subsequently learnt from Iraqi, CIA and British intelligence that the WMD buried in the four sites were excavated by Iraqis and Syrians, with help from the Russians, and moved to Syria. The location in Syria of this material, he says, is also known to these intelligence agencies. The worst-case scenario has now come about. Saddam’s nuclear, biological and chemical material is in the hands of a rogue terrorist state — and one with close links to Iran.

…… In 2005, the CIA held a belated inquiry into the disappearance of this intelligence. Only then did its agents visit the sites — to report that they had indeed been looted.
http://www.spectator.co.uk/the-magazine/features/29092/part_1/i-found-saddams-wmd-bunkers.thtml

And gee whiz, lookie what the leftwing rag New York Times actually published:

In the weeks after Baghdad fell in April 2003, looters systematically dismantled and removed tons of machinery from Saddam Hussein’s most important weapons installations, including some with high-precision equipment capable of making parts for nuclear arms, a senior Iraqi official said this week in the government’s first extensive comments on the looting.

The Iraqi official, Sami al-Araji, the deputy minister of industry, said it appeared that a highly organized operation had pinpointed specific plants in search of valuable equipment, some of which could be used for both military and civilian applications, and carted the machinery away.

Dr. Araji said his account was based largely on observations by government employees and officials who either worked at the sites or lived near them.
“They came in with the cranes and the lorries, and they depleted the whole sites,” Dr. Araji said. “They knew what they were doing; they knew what they want. This was sophisticated looting.”

……Dr. Araji said equipment capable of making parts for missiles as well as chemical, biological and nuclear arms was missing from 8 or 10 sites that were the heart of Iraq’s dormant program on unconventional weapons.
http://www.nytimes.com/2005/03/13/international/middleeast/13loot.html?pagewanted=1

Gawd only knows where those weapons were smuggled to, but the reports, classified and unclassified, point toward Syria.

“Fostering good”…what good? In a muslim society rife with extremists? Obama kissing the ass of Mahmoud Ahmadinejad ‘fostering good’? Please.

Cruel attitude? Any less cruel than what we had to do to Japan to help end WWII? We nuked the hell out of Hiroshima and Nagasaki. We didn’t mess around.

Muslim women don’t mind joining their male counterparts in suicide bombings. It’s the Islamic equivalent of “equal opportunity”:
“Dressed to kill, Female Suicide Bombers” http://www.newsweek.com/id/149531?from=rss

And their children are being indoctrinated to become good little jihadists:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EeZzSgKUde8

By the way, Christians, (“Crusaders”, notably) haven’t been on the warpath for what…500 years? They fought against the muslims in direct response to the brutal Turkish Ottoman Empire. The 21st Century muslims, on the other hand, have started a brand new effort to achieve a world-wide Caliphate. They state that emphatically.

Those ‘bad-acting’ individuals are not getting any resistance from the so-called “vast majority of peaceful muslims”. Where are they?

My ‘characterization of Sharia Law comes straight from the source: the Koran.

So, you’re saying the Bush only got his MBA and Undergraduate degrees because of “legacy obligations”? And all this time I thought that grades, term papers, essays, and studying had something to do with it. When you make silly comparisons about “legacy obligations” is when you really begin to grasp at straws.

Obama’s “business” experience: He ran a foundation (Annenberg) as a “community activist” along with terrorist William Ayers. That ‘foundation’ funded radical groups like (surprise) ACORN.

George W. Bush was the Governor of Texas. He began his career in the oil and gas business in Midland in 1975 and worked in the energy industry until 1986. There’s been no reports of it ‘being run into the ground’, by anyone. He also assembled a group of partners that purchased the Texas Rangers baseball franchise in 1989 and built the Ranger’s Ballpark at Arlington.

Obama spent a little time as a “community organizer” and 142 days as Senator. That’s it. A fast track to a position of power does not mean the person has the competence to deal with it.

Sarah Palin has more experience as Alaska governor than Obama ever had in his life.

A time line for Obama: Pay close attention to the years 1981-1984 and 1985-1988. They describe his political indoctrination with mentors like Saul Alinsky and Frank Marshall Davis.
http://mensnewsdaily.com/2008/10/26/the-obama-timeline-1961-2008/

The basis for labeling his socialist programs a disaster is because that’s exactly what they are.

You cannot be this dense. You blather on and on like a simple-minded child. “Everything is hunky dory and you’re wrong about Obama because he’s like, the most wonderful, handsomest, smartest, savior on the planet”.

Lady, it’s very hard to take you seriously, which is why I don’t.

You really have the Barney Franks talking points down to a “T”. Too bad they’re just as much BS now as they were back in 2004, when, in spite of the Republican’s warnings to regulate the Freddie Mac/Fannie Mae programs, the Democrats refused. You can thank them for the collapsing economy.

Free market enterprise and capitalism does not thrive very well under socialist tax, spend, and bailout measures. The country’s economy is in the toilet, but he grins like an idiot, frets over the NCAA, and insists everything’s okay. Here’s just a sample of prominent experts who agree that it is disastrous:

Warren Buffett: Economy Has ‘Fallen Off a Cliff’
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,506901,00.html

Obama, Geithner Receive Failing Grades From Economists in Survey
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/11/obama-geithner-receive-failing-grades-latest-survey

As for the Dow, it’s not doing so well, and hasn’t since Obama started his “programs”

Study: Dow’s Decline Is Fastest for a New President in Nearly a Century
http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/03/06/study-dow-decline-marks-fastest-new-president-nearly-century

House foreclosures are up, too. But that’s mostly because of the Democrat-created Fannie Mae/Freddie Mac disaster. The government forced those banks to lend to people who had terrible credit.

Did you not see THE ONE’S poll numbers? They’re taking a nosedive. Even some liberals are waking up out of their comas and realizing that this socialist in an empty suit is destroying the economy.

Jimmy Carter, competent? Respected? He botched Iran. He was and is an abject failure who never met a dictator he didn’t like. And his domestic policies drove inflation sky high and the economy to new lows….like guess who.

Our immigration laws apply to everyone. Gain entrance legally, stay here legally, and obtain citizenship legally. It’s that simple.

“Interdisciplinary degree systems” aside, it’s up to the prospective employee to fit the requirements for jobs, regardless of where.

Brain washed? That’s pretty funny coming from someone steeped in leftwing philosophy and who wouldn’t recognize a real threat to Western Civilization even if it walked up to her, screamed “Allah U Akbar” and lit the fuse.

As for the CIA report you cited: The report was written 3 years before 500 tons of Saddam’s ‘yellowcake’ was shipped from Iraq to Canada. http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2008/07/08/last-of-saddams-non-existant-wmd-program-shut-down/

They need to talk with Dave Gaubatz, The CIA is a day late and a dollar short.

And, I am quite happy, thank you. I retired from the Army in 2006 after 30 years. I’m active in veteran’s organizations, and still keep in contact with Soldiers still serving here and in Iraq and Afghanistan. I also read extensively on the latest intelligence information readily available in open sources. You ought to do the same. You’ll learn something.

And do come back. I’m still waiting to be “written under the table”.

Cheers,
SFC MAC

djcnor,

A referrence to babies….Another irrelevant metaphor.

I’ve seen both good and bad, and I know the difference between the conjectures of inexperienced arm-chair critics, and those who actually lived the experiences they speak of. Hint: It ain’t you.

You have more “counter terrorism” experience than me? You’re hilarious, and no you don’t. What real ‘contact’ have you had? “Counter terrorism” doesn’t involve encounters with muslim locals who probably get a kick out of pulling one over on an infidel. Go down to Anjem Choudary’s mosque and try practicing your “counter terrorism” methods.
Where are the ones that defy the “stereotype”? I’m still waiting for so-called “moderate” muslims to break their silence and come out in identifiable numbers. Tacit disapproval doesn’t count.
Sorry, but your “experience” comes nowhere near the knowledge and hands on experience I’ve had in the Middle East and working as a senior intelligence analyst, both strategic and tactical. Counter-terrorism involves the collection of intelligence, and analysis of terrorist cells and individuals. It also covers a broad range of tracking their movements, associations, financial activity, and training. That includes what goes on in their neighborhood communities. MI5 has their hands full.

When muslim extremists in your country, who are growing by leaps and bounds, go from saber rattling to going through with their promise to “offer Sharia Law to Britain”, you’ll have much more of what you experienced on 7 July, 2005. Your Parliament isn’t helping matters much by accommodating radical muslims every time they scream ‘discrimination’ because they refuse to assimilate into Western culture.
1200 years of muslim spin is finally taking its effect.

I’ve been face to face with muslims both in the Middle East and in western countries. It pretty much did away with my heretofore romanticized “Midnight at the Oasis” ideas.
None of your ‘experiences’ are even remotely close to what I’ve seen and done. To compare your silly “experiences” with mine is fatuous.

The “intelligence to comprehend any field of information”? Obama? Now I know without a doubt, you’re delusional. Have you actually read his unrehearsed comments? Obama is a dolt who can’t even articulate without a teleprompter. Have you paid attention to his “comprehension” skills with regard to economic and foreign policy? Have you heard about the catastrophic policies he’s putting into place? He’s a complete embarrassment, and you don’t even have the wherewithal to be embarrassed over your adoration for this empty suit.
This is just a brief description of his latest screw-ups: http://sfcmac.wordpress.com/2009/03/23/steve-kroft-to-obama-are-you-punch-drunk/

The difference between Judeo-Christian philosophy and Islamic doctrine is that they’re diametrically opposed. You had to take a couple of college courses to figure that out?

By the way, the study of Islamic doctrine and Middle Eastern history was part of my training. So was Soviet doctrine, and Balkans history. I was also in Korea, and had to learn about North Korean doctrine, weapons, and tactics. During the process of my intelligence training, I was required to read books written on everything from sociology to warfare by Sun Zu and Carl von Clausewitz. Aside from the numerous military schools and academies I’ve attended, I have an Associates Degree in Applied Science.

You’re a Jewish liberal who has never been exposed to the hostile environment of an Islamic nation-state. The reading of publications and cavorting with scientists of other cultures within the benevolent confines of a Western country, is much different than being subjected to the brutality of an Islamic state with no way out. In other words, you have the privilege of living in a free society that protects your right to speak your mind as you see fit. The irony is that the radical muslims living in Britain would like to transform it (and the rest of the world) into something that resembles the Islamic hellholes they came from. And you’re giving them the forum to do it.

By the way, since you’re Jewish, you might want to read just a few examples from the ‘peaceful religion of Islam’: (the Koran)

XVI.8: It may be that your Lord will have mercy on you, and if you (again return to disobedience) we too will return (to punishment), and We have made hell a prison for the unbelievers.

II.161: Surely those who disbelieve and die while they are disbelievers, these it is on whom is the curse of Allah and the angels and men all.

IX. 5-6: Kill those who join other gods with God wherever you may find them.

IV.74: Let those who fight in the cause of God who barter the life of this world for that which is to come; for whoever fights on God’s path, whether he is killed or triumphs, We will give him a handsome reward. (Must be those 72 virgins)

VIII.39-42: Say to the Infidels: if they desist from their unbelief, what is now past shall be forgiven; but if they return to it, they have already before them the doom of the ancients! Fight then against them till strife be at an end, and the religion be all of it God’s.

4.56: (As for) those who disbelieve in Our communications, We shall make them enter fire; so oft as their skins are thoroughly burned, We will change them for other skins, that they may taste the chastisement; surely Allah is Mighty, Wise.

5.51: O you who believe! Do not take the Jews and the Christians for friends; they are friends of each other; and whoever amongst you takes them for a friend, then surely he is one of them; surely Allah does not guide the unjust people.

Just one of the verses concerning women:
4.34: Men are the protectors and maintainers of women, because Allah has given the one more (strength) than the other, and because they support them from their means. Therefore the righteous women are devoutly obedient, and guard in (the husband’s) absence what Allah would have them guard. As to those women on whose part ye fear disloyalty and ill-conduct, admonish them (first), (Next), refuse to share their beds, (And last) beat them (lightly); but if they return to obedience, seek not against them Means (of annoyance): For Allah is Most High, great (above you all)”

I worked and lived among ordinary civilians as well as military members of other countries. When housing was not available, I lived on the economy. (Off base) I also learned about other languages, German in particular. Good will fluctuates with the relationship between governments, as well as the contact between American troops and the host nation. The “good will” thing hinges on how much any particular country likes us or hates us on any given day. When you’re the biggest guy on the block, you’re disliked for being powerful, yet you’re expected to protect others. If we take the initiative and get involved, we’re hated. If we don’t, we’re hated. We tried being isolationist, and we still got dragged into two world wars we didn’t start.

John Gibson, a Fox News commentator summed it up:

“The world wanted us to save them from the Soviets. We did. The world wanted us to do something about Saddam. (And the rest of terrorism, for that matter) We did, and then the world decided we did a bad thing because we didn’t ask their permission for each and every step in doing what needed to be done.”

My point about Spain was on courage and those who realize that Islam is a threat to everyone, including Spain. Running with your tail between your legs doesn’t get much respect, especially from Islamofascists. Even after Spain appeased al Qaeda by pulling out of Iraq, muslims still operated and planned more attacks in the country. That’s gratitude for ya.

I presented facts that directly refuted everything held dear by the Bush/America-bashing crowd.
Those sources were both military and civilian personnel who discovered those weapons, and were responsible for securing them, placing them in sealed containers, shipping them out of Iraq, and ultimately destroying them. The New York Times and the BBC were two of the news outlets that reported the WMD discoveries. They are two of the biggest leftwing publications on the planet, and far from being sympathetic to the U.S. or our mission in Iraq and Afghanistan. The WMDs were real, and they at least had the integrity to report what was found. Your refusal to accept that they were discovered, can only be explained as a puerile attempt to ignore the truth. They were found. Deal with it.

Maybe, at some point during your “daily contact with Britain’s muslims” you can ask them to convince the rest of their religious sect to worship peacefully and respect other religions when they do the same. Tell them to stop using “Allah” and “Mohammed” as an excuse for their violence or the “Great Satan” will have to bomb them back to the stoneage, which in their case, would only set them back about a week. Tell them if they want to subjugate their own people to the yolk of Islamofascism, that’s one thing. Just don’t expect the rest of us to follow suit.

Good Luck.

I know a lot more than you about what’s going on in Iraq and Afghanistan. Bad incidents was all the MSM would cover, until we won.

A pro-al Qaeda news source valid and well researched? I bet you think MEMRI is reliable too. Tell me, do they ever do ‘grassroots’ reporting on the victims of Islamic terrorism?

That’s a trick question.

I had a cousin who was a helicopter pilot in Vietnam and was killed there. When I went through basic training at Ft. Jackson South Carolina in 1976, some of my Drill Sergeants were Vietnam vets. I personally served with and had many friends who were Vietnam Veterans. Their reaction to the way they were treated by the media and the anti-war protesters was infuriated, to say the least.

The ‘genius’ comment was an allusion to your “136 IQ” boast, although you’ve demonstrated little of it here. Anyone who thinks Obama is smart, doesn’t have much acumen.

You’re pissed that GW backed up his threat to force Hussein to comply and also strike back at the Taliban and al Qadea where they live. The U.N. specifically told Iraq to comply with the Resolutions, cooperate with the inspectors, and cease and desist with his WMD program.
Hussein violated every single resolution, kicked out the inspectors, and continued research and development on WMD. He also gave support to and communicated with terrorist groups. We had to go back into Iraq to finish the job we started in 1991. There’s no doubt he would have been a major contributor to terrorist operations if we had tried to limit action only to Afghanistan. Those are well-documented facts.

Bush also kept America safe for the remainder of his term, and allowed our intelligence agencies to effectively use surveillance to thwart terrorist threats in the U.S.
Obama, on the other hand, is too preoccupied with kissing their ass and making a mess of our economy.

Greg Palast is a certifiable nutcase. He “predicted” that the 2006 Congressional elections were going to be “stolen from the democrats”, and railed about Karl Rove “fixing the 2008 election”. The man needs medication. And your DNA comparison is still asinine.

ACORN is being investigated by the FBI on several felonies including embezzlement, fraud, and intimidation. They did NOT do as the law prescribed. That’s why they’re being investigated.

The only accomplishments I’ve seen from you is a propensity to spout hackneyed B.S. and claim to know so much about so little. A ‘migrant with skills’? Like that’s unique, MS. Ph.D.

SFC MAC

djcnor,

When I encounter people like you, it only re-affirms my opinion of the clueless.

Point by point:

1. When it comes to public opinon (Euro) you can’t squander ‘good will’ where it barely existed in the first place. Sorry, but the United States will never ask you for a permission slip before we defend ourselves. Many countries in the world look to the U.S. to be the world cop, and jeer from the sidelines while we do the heavy lifting.

But, Britain, Australia, Poland, Canada, Germany, and a host of other coalition forces were there as well. We didn’t “squander” too much, now did we?

In case you haven’t noticed, muslim extremists target Britain in the war against the West. If you think your country can do a better job (capitulation doesn’t count), then by all means step up to the plate, mate.

2. At no time did he say that Saddam was directly involved in the attacks. Cite one instance where he did. He did, however, stress the fact that Iraq was a threat and no where was that more evident than Saddam’s own behavior, support of terrorism, and our subsequent discovery of the weapons.

I don’t care that you’re “not impressed”, especially since you have no such experience, military or otherwise. You’re very presumptuous for someone who never spent one day in Iraq with me or my fellow troops. There’s also plenty of ‘open source’ information to show you, unequivocally, just how wrong you are. The main stream media hasn’t exactly done back flips over our victory, and you certainly won’t see “Victory in Iraq” which is a done deal, blazened across the headlines of the New York Times. Try reading the opinions of those in the war zone: Michael Yon and Bill Roggio are two former Soldiers-turned journalists embedded with Army units in Iraq and Afghanistan. Here are their websites: http://www.michaelyon-online.com/ and http://www.longwarjournal.org/

I dare say that they have a hell of a lot more experience than you.

As someone who was there, I’m damned glad we got Hussein and the WMD before they could be used. What I saw and experienced, made a believer out of me. While you were sitting on your ass, I was actually in a combat zone as part of the intelligence gathering operations. I was not restricted under any circumstances. Now, tell me what’s your experience besides reading the propaganda in The Guardian?

3. “The opinions of the civilians on the ground are much more convincing, and they say things have been worse since we came than before. They have also been worse for Americans.”

That statement right there proves what an ass you are. This is the gist of your spiel: “I don’t care that the “non-existent” WMDs were found, and you can’t make me, so there.”
You don’t realize just how foolish you look. Pity. Saddam was just many of the threats that exist in the Middle East…but not anymore, is he?

The press came and went from Iraq and Afghanistan freely. Some were embeded with coalition troops, some just sat in their air conditioned hotel rooms and reprinted whatever they got from al Jazeera. As soon as it became apparent that the war was being won, they un-assed the country and went to other parts to look for bad news.

Sorry, but the opinions of the troops in Iraq and Afghanistan, the success of the war you hoped America would lose, as well as the Iraq and Afghan populations who benefit from our efforts, far outweigh the opinion of a Euro effete (in Norwich) who can’t differentiate between a terrorist attack and what Obama now refers to as a “man-caused disaster”. You’ve never spoken with any of them. You dismiss anything contrary to your made-up mind. How shockingly stupid.

To not strike back against the region of the world responsible for terrorism, would have indeed made things worse for Americans. By the way, I’m all for taking out Saudi Arabia, too.

4. My first response is to say: Look who gave al Qaeda the green light: the President you fawned over before Bush was elected: Bubba Clinton. His “response” to Khobar Towers, the U.S. Embassy attacks in Kenya and Tanzania, the USS Cole, and the FIRST World Trade Center attack in 1993, was to wag-the-dog in Somalia and the Balkans.
Oh by the way: The Sudanese arrested Bin Laden in 1996, and offered to extradite him. Bubba refused. He never did take the war on terrorism as seriously as Monica’s mouth-to-crotch resuscitation. Three times after Aug. 20, 1998, when Clinton ordered the only missile strike of his presidency against bin Laden’s organization, the CIA came close enough to pinpointing bin Laden that Clinton authorized final preparations to launch. In each case, (Clinton’s) doubts about the intelligence aborted the mission. Bin Laden got away.

You “foresaw all that came afterwards and continues to happen as a result of that.” You’ve got to be joking. From where? The comfort of your livingroom watching the telly?

The notion that our invasion of Iraq and Afghanistan “created” terrorists is like saying Nazis were “created” because we invaded Germany. Islamic extremists have been around long before we decided to fight back. The Nazis, Japs, and Italians didn’t roll over and neither will the ragheads. Enemies don’t like it when you fight back, especially on their own turf.

Torture motivates torture? Where did you get that vapid idea? Last I checked, the jihadists had it down to a fine art, and didn’t care what kinds of methods we use to extract information, other than using the publicity to get the panties of people like you in a wad.

You never let the facts get in the way of a good America bashing.

5. You’re right. The FIRST war against the United States was started in Tehran in 1979, with the embassy hostage taking. It continued to get closer in proximity, especially during Clinton’s tenure, but no one took it seriously. It culminated with the attack on 9/11. What part of Islam declaring war on the West don’t you get?

The 19 hijackers were a composite of Middle Eastern countries:

15 were from Saudi Arabia, two from the United Arab Emirates, one from Egypt and one from Lebanon. They received training and indoctrination in Afghanistan. Khalid Sheik Mohammad and Bin Laden both approved and hand selected the terrorists.

6. Are you that fucking dense? Oh yeah, they never missed the towers, just the thousands of people who perished. The point is, and I know you missed it, was the loss of not just a structure, but the freinds and loved ones slaughtered that day. So what if two ugly buildings went down taking all those people (including the victims on the planes) with them? My god, you are a piece of work.

7. “I have as valuable and authoritative opinion as yours…”
Uh, no you don’t. You’ve never been away from the backyard of Western civilization. You’re unworldly and terribly naive for someone who claims to have “info from across the world”. Watching “The Beeb” will only get you so much information. It helps to actually be exposed to a culture (especially that of an enemy) before you brag about having an “authoritative opinion”.

Thanks for responding. You can go back to watching the telly, now.

As for ‘sparks’, it would help if you had a couple between the old synapses.

Cheers,

SFC MAC